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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Roman Coins (Moderator: Severus_Alexander)  |  Topic: Constantia issue - again! :-D 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Constantia issue - again! :-D  (Read 6045 times)
Antiq
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« on: April 17, 2011, 08:29:07 pm »

Hello, at first, yeah i read all articles here about her :-) but no many information  Sad
My "question" is why there is only one image of Constantia coin - from RIC, RIC listed 4 of them, even coin of Constantia is only R4 in RIC. ?! It is real? All owners are stingy to show us images?

Here are some information what i found about her. If some information are not correct, please send correct ones. Thank you :-)



Only existing image of Constantia (from RIC):


Quote
Constantia Æ Follis  326-327 A.D.
CONSTANTIA N F (nobilissima femina) head bare, but intertwined plaits encircling head, plaits decorated with hair pins, mantled with necklace (A7 bust).
SOROR CONSTANTINI AVG reverse legend enclosing wreath, wherein PIET/AS PVB/LICA
the legend translates as "the public piety of the sister of Constantine".
RIC VII Constantinople 15
(Source: http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/family/)

Quote
Flavia VALERIA Constantia the daughter of Constantius Chlorus sister of Constantine the Great and wife of Licinius was born in Britain married to the emperor in the year of Rome 1066 AD 313 died about the year 1083 AD 330. The coins of this princess given by Goltzius are not authenticated.
(Source:A descriptive catalogue of rare and unedited Roman coins, 1834)

I don´t understand this: The coins of this princess given by Goltzius are not authenticated.
My first question: Goltzious = Hubert Goltz/Hubertus Goltzius???
Second one, if yes, coins of this princess = did Goltzious have more examples? How many? Maybe some of them can be in his famous books, which exist only in few examples?


Existing examples by RIC:


1) One example should be in "Neuerwerbungen romischer munzen im munzkabinett der ermitage" by E. Pridik ZN 1930, page 76, no.12, pl. III 12

2) Jean Lafaurie? in Revue Numismatique in 1955!!! (online (1958 - 2003)  Angry Angry Angry), plate IX, 10.

3) Leningrad, Ermitage, Ex. Stroganoff collection, Ex. Osman Noury Bey in 1914 Same like 1?

4) Jules Maurice - Numismatique Constantinienne II, plate XVI. 2. Paris, 1908 - 1912
- For sell here at FORVM!!!  Shocked - Please can owner check it??? Thank you  Smiley

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Maximinvs
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 03:39:53 am »

I hope this thread doesn't drop off the board through lack of responses, because I think it is interesting.

I can't really add to the discussion other than to say that Constantia's headdress is more reminiscent of later Helena/Theodora issues from Constantinople struck around 340AD, rather than the 'contemporary' empress issues of the mid 320's. Do we know anything about the module of the Constantia coins?

Regards,
Ian


* 151172.jpg (11.94 KB, 300x138 - viewed 467 times.)
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curtislclay
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 04:16:31 am »

Module of the Paris specimen 18-19 mm, according to the illustration in RIC, pl. 18, 15, assuming it's life size.

RIC p. 571, 15 note mentions just two specimens, a) Paris = Maurice = RIC pl. 18, b) St. Petersburg ex Stroganoff and Osman Noury Bey = Pridik, NZ 1930 pl. III.2 = Laufaurie, RN 1955, pl. IX.10.

Yes, that's the Goltzius in question, who invented dozens of coins for imperial figures mentioned by the historians but for whom coins were unknown.

Correct translation of the rev. legend: "Public Piety" within the wreath. SOROR CONSTANTINI AVG, being in the nominative case, isn't connected to the "Public Piety" but is in apposition to the obv. legend, calling Constantia "Sister of Constantine Augustus".
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Curtis Clay
gavignano
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 01:22:20 am »

We have talked about her issues a few times -
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=71144.msg447964;topicseen#msg447964
If one ever came up for sale from a private collection- the sky would be the limit - maybe 50,000 USD?? Who knows? It is not outsdie the realm of possilbity that there are one or more of her still lurking in the ground, and a uncleaned lot somewhere may be hosting one. Not a single published one it appears since documentation in RIC the late 1960s.....Cool to think about!
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gavignano
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 01:06:47 am »

I posted a bad link! for those still interested, here is a Forvm discussion circa 2006. Perhaps a classic:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=30808.0
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Vincent
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 01:18:13 pm »

Maximinus, that is insightful about the date of the issue being circa 340 and does indeed make more sense.
There were only three mints, Trier, Rome and Constantinople, to commemorate the former ladies, Theodora, Helena and her at this time. If history is to be believed, Constantius II was the driving force to eradicate the male hiers of the household of Constantine. So, for him to include Constantina in the possible series would be pausible. The few that survived may have been an initial sample "trial" issue, waiting approval from his brothers, Constantine II and Constans, to add it to their mints. We know Constans did not approve of death issues on religious grounds, and maybe that is why his Rome issues are the scarcer than the other brothers. Maybe they thought it too obvious a message to promote her image to the public at this tragic incident, even if their father's actions justified their own actions.
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Antiq
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 10:07:43 am »

Hello FORVM,
Today i found new coin of Constantia:


It is completely different than well known one:


And also completely different than well known fake one:


What do you think? Can be real one, or again only fake one?

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Heliodromus
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 02:12:00 pm »

That's a modern fake - the bust style is all wrong.

Here's another photo of it.

Ben


* Constantia Piet-as Pvb-lica (Soror Constantini Avg) Constantinople 326-327 (RIC VII Constantinople 15 R4) modern fake - LaMoneta.it.jpg (57.18 KB, 800x345 - viewed 24 times.)
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Rupert
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 11:30:47 pm »

These are, however, two different fakes - the style and detalis are quite different again between the two. No wonder that there are more fake than real ones of these!

Rupert
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Lech Stępniewski
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 03:31:25 pm »

Another fake. This time from a reputable dealer

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2678&category=56553&lot=2251268



* RIC15fake.jpg (123.31 KB, 803x401 - viewed 12 times.)
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Lech Stępniewski
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 05:15:12 pm »

Awesome.  Sadly the catalogue description fails to mention the important fact that this coin provides proof that Julia Mamaea's hairstylist must have lived to be more than 150 years old as she was still doing the same hair styling job in the mid-fourth century......  Roll Eyes

Shawn
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SC
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2016, 09:57:44 pm »

No, she's just wearing Mamaea's wig. God only knows where she found the relic.
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Robert Brenchley

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Rupert
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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2016, 10:07:01 pm »

No, she's just wearing Mamaea's wig. God only knows where she found the relic.

That shouldn't have been so hard. Just think about it, at about the same time Helena found the True Cross in Jerusalem, which must have been like finding a needle in a haystack with all those crosses standing about, as seen in the final scene of "The Life of Brian". Only God knows how she found THAT, and He won't tell us... ;-)

Rupert
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