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Author Topic: Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?  (Read 7292 times)

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Offline Arminius

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Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?
« on: November 15, 2010, 06:21:28 pm »
Meanwhile i assembled these two:



Constantinus I (Constantine), Rome mint, officina 1, 321 AD.,
Æ Follis (18-19 mm / 3,40 g),
Obv.: CONSTAN - TINVS AVG , laureate head right.
Rev.: D N CONSTANTINI MAX AVG // VOT / XX // R P , around and within a (decorated?) laurel wreath.
RIC VII, p. 320 (/1), # 232 (/237) (scarce (-C3) ) .




Constantinus I. (Constantine), Rome mint, officina 1, 321 AD.,
Æ Follis (18-19 mm / 3,04 g),
Obv.: CONSTAN - TINVS AVG , laureate head of Constantinus right.
Rev.: D N CONSTANTINI MAX AVG / VOT / XX // R P , wreath around VOT / XX , R P in exergue.
RIC VII, 320-1, 232 or -7


If i interpret RIC right, the main difference is a "decorated" laurel wreath.

But what is the difference between decorated and not decorated - RIC 232 and 237 ?


regards

Offline Victor C

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Re: Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2012, 02:53:15 pm »
This picture is from Bruun's article "Constantinian Mint Policy and the Imperial Vota" and shows different types of wreaths. Unfortunately he did not clearly state which ones were decorated versus undecorated! I would assume that A and B are undecorated while the rest are decorated. According to this, your top coin would be RIC 232.
Victor Clark

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Offline Arminius

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Re: Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2012, 04:31:56 pm »
Sometimes you have to be patient til a competent person stumbles on your question.

Thank you !

 :)

Offline SC

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Re: Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2012, 07:39:44 am »
Regardless of the Bruun article I would consider all of the wreaths shown in the image Victor posted as "decorated".  To me the standard wreath, with nothing at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions and the dot in circle at 12 o'clock, is the undecorated wreath and all of the wreath types from the March 321 Rome issue are decorated - i.e. those with anything in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions.

There is a detailled study of these wreaths in Brenot's Bikic-Do hoard study, page 20.

Shawn


SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Victor C

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Re: Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2012, 09:32:47 am »
Regardless of the Bruun article

But surely you must pay attention to the article since Bruun also wrote RIC VII and that is the point of this-- how are these wreaths arranged according to Bruun.
Victor Clark

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Offline SC

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Re: Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 05:06:45 am »
The orginal question was what is the difference between decorated and non-decorated wreaths in RIC-VII-Rome 232 and RIC-VII-237.

As you noted Bruun did not clearly state in Constantinian Mint Policy what wreaths were decorated and what were not.  He also does not provide any further clarity on the wreath decorations in RIC-VII either. 

So I simply noted that in my opinion anything other than the standard type of wreath (dot in circle at 12 o'clock and nothing at 3 and 6 o'clock) should be considered a decorated wreath.

I think that Bruun meant the same thing but I can't prove it hence I said "regardless of the Bruun article".  (I also don't seem to have my copy of that Bruun article anymore, at least not where I can find it.) 

However, I am pretty sure that the chart you provided a copy of was Bruun's listing of decorated wreaths not of all wreaths.  I think this is clear from the fact that he does not include the standard type of wreath (dot in circle at 12 o'clock and nothing at 3 and 6 o'clock) which we know makes up the bulk of the RP issue of Votas.

So I guess I would disagree with you in that I would say that the chart you provided shows decorated wreath types a) to g).  Thus both of Arminius' coins have decorated wreaths - Bruun's a) in the first case and Bruun's e) in the second.

To help clarify I am attaching a picture of one of my coins - it is a RP issue but from the secund officina (RS) which RIC notes is never found decorated - but it shows what I am calling the non-decorated wreath.   

As for sorting out wreaths and this issue Bruun wrote Constantinian Mint Policy in the mid 50s and RIC VII in the mid 60s.  His work is important but not the final word.  Brenot's study of the Bikic-Do hoard was published in the late 70s.  It provides some more examination of the wreath types and their origin.  There may even be stuff written on these wreath since that I am not aware of.

Shawn
SC
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Offline Victor C

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Re: Constantine, Rome mint, Follis, RIC 232 or 327 ?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 08:24:28 am »
To help clarify I am attaching a picture of one of my coins - it is a RP issue but from the secund officina (RS) which RIC notes is never found decorated - but it shows what I am calling the non-decorated wreath.  

Yes, it seems that your coin would have to be an undecorated wreath and that the picture from the Bruun article must then be decorated wreaths. A picture can be worth a thousand words...your picture of the coin!
Victor Clark

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