Authentification required for alledgedly original Lucilla bronze

[Darijan S]

Hi, I was a step from buying this piece, cause it visually (on photo) looks fine, but then I started with items descripition as an Lucil(l)a as (?), marked by seller with many RRR_ _ _...'s. Seller might be ignorant in the field of roman imperial numismatics, he might as well pretend to be so, he alledgedly guarantees the coin's authenticity, but on the other embarks on a non-returnable policy. Seller did not specified its measures nor he had offered any attribution according to any reputable source such as RIC or Sear. Reverse lettering puzzles me reading apperantly FECONDITAS instead of orderly FECUNDITAS. Maybe I don't see it quite clear. Anyway I haven' t found such a coin type in my books. Fecunditas reverse type goes along with Lucilla's children on her lap in a right pose, while here she is portraited alone in unusual left pose, with a bunch of grape motive toward left corner between her feet and F in lettering. Could anyone suggest anything on this only from the glance? I need it quick!

[dltcoins]

Heavily tooled.

[curtislclay]

This FECVNDITAS S C As exists for Lucilla, BMC 1216, pl. 78.3, Cohen 24, but this specimen is tooled, as Anteporcos says.

[Galaxy]

Holy cow, what a godawful repatination jobbie.

[Arminius]

Oh, she got new clothes and visited the hairdresser!

 

[Darijan S]

Thanks to all. So original but tooled and patinated. How much tooling and patinating is generally acceptable, will it be a sin to buy such a peace for an collection where unaltered originals prevails in 95%? Does anyone see letter O in Fecunditas where it shouldn't be really, is there any explanation for it?. Is it worth 110 USD?

[Darijan S]

Pls Curtisclay, clarifiy does it realy match totaly with the description and picture of a referential source. Have you realy sow a picture of reverse including errored "O" and bunch of grape or whatever it displays near her feet. Could you attach any link that I can make sure myself.
Thanks a lot.

[Will Hooton]

I have seen worse tooling on coins, but tooling is tooling. I would only take this coin to skip it off the surface of a lake. Therefore it has $0 value to me.

If you want to spend $110 wisely, spend them at FORVM, not some shady ebay dealer.

[dltcoins]

The coin is so heavily tooled that it may not even have begun as Lucilla. The reverse was probably manufactured from one of the Concordia, Juno or Venus types.

I'd hate to see anyone defile a lake by skipping this thing across it.

[ecoli]

To knowingly sell pieces like this as original will land the seller in notorious list on Forum. 

I sometimes buy junkie coins but no, this one has no value what so ever.

[curtislclay]

I would assume that the types are basically original, but the V of FECVNDITAS has been tooled into an O. That's a child standing before Fecunditas and reaching up towards her.

The only picture I have is the one already referred to, in the British Museum Catalogue, from a different reverse die. BMC is not on line, but reprints are available, and definitely worth getting.

[dltcoins]

Curtis, how is the word FECVNDITAS broken on the BMC specimen? If the basic type is indeed original, I wouldn't be surprised if the "O" began as the C of FECV-NDITAS. There appears to be the remnant of a letter (N?) to the right of the figure's head; otherwise there is a very awkward space between the head and the "D". The "E" as the coin is now would have been the original "F", the "C" the original "E", the "N" the original "V", and a completely new F engraved just above the stem of the chili-pepper at left. 


 

[curtislclay]

That doesn't seem too likely, since one would expect the rev. legend to begin right above the head of the child, or even better behind the child, as on the BM specimen.

Legend division on BM coin is also FECVN - DITAS, and there is a substantial gap before the D, which is at the level of the top of the back of the throne, not too different from on your piece.

To see for sure how extensively "your" coin has been tooled, one would need to find an untooled die match, ideally for both sides. Only the rev. of the BM coin is illustrated in BMC.

[gavignano]

it is kind of a weird style for tooling - extreme on the hair ,clothing of Lucilla - eye also enhanced. Yet the lettering gets no consistent treatment?  His hands got tired? He went to lunch? Finish the job at least! 

[Darijan S]

Ok that will do, I made my mind up. Thanks to all participants, but special thanks for illustrativeness and precision of Anteporcoses nad CurtisClay's remarks.