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Author Topic: The Crosby Garrett helmet.  (Read 16412 times)

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Offline *Alex

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2010, 09:01:16 am »
The helmet has been sold at auction for around £2m. ($3.2m.)

It had been expected to fetch up to £300,000 when it went under the hammer at Christie's in London.

The buyer has not been revealed so it is not yet known if Carlisle's Tullie House Museum's campaign to keep it in Cumbria was successful.

An announcement is due later.

Alex.

Offline irish

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2010, 09:09:53 am »
thank you for this....please let us know anything you hear about the buyer...b
Detritus, detritus, detritus...ad infinitum...

Offline Syltorian

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2010, 09:42:19 am »
The buyer has not been revealed so it is not yet known if Carlisle's Tullie House Museum's campaign to keep it in Cumbria was successful.

According to the website of the appeal to keep the helmet in Cumbria (http://www.justgiving.com/Tullie-House-Crosby-Garrett-Roman-Helmet-Appeal), they raised £8,886.72, plus about a fourth of that in Gift Aid. Not even near...  :-\

Provided I've got the right website, of course, and it has been updated properly as far as offline support goes (£0! in offline donations sounds as if they forgot to update that page).

Offline Syltorian

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2010, 09:48:51 am »
Found another update (apologies for posting in  brief succession):

"(...) The universal appeal of the helmet saw it draw interest from a diverse group of bidders at today’s auction – collectors of antiquities competed with those who have more often bought in other fields including modern art and old master paintings. In all 6 bidders fought for the helmet; 3 by telephone, 2 in the room and one via the internet from California. It was sold for £2.3 million to an anonymous client bidding by phone."

Source: Georgiana Aitken, Head of Antiquities at Christie’s, London, http://www.ukauctionnews.com/2010/10/crosby-garrett-helmet-sells-for-23.html

Do you reckon the name of the buyer will ever be revealed?


Offline cliff_marsland

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2010, 12:07:04 pm »
It was also featured briefly on the November episode of the Naked Archaeologist Podcast. 

The sale price will be interesting to see.


Offline Will Hooton

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2010, 12:15:08 pm »

The sale price will be interesting to see.



£2,281,250. I don't know if this includes buyers fees. We don't know who bought it yet, or where it's going. When I do know, I can comment further.

Offline irish

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2010, 01:09:25 pm »
It is the art find of the century.  The entire incident glaringly reveals the treasure type mindset of the so-called professionals who judge what and what is not of value in this place we all inhabit.  I hope it is not sequestered forever after...thank you for the updates, any other information appreciated, and I will of course post here if there are revelations this side....b
Detritus, detritus, detritus...ad infinitum...

gavignano

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2010, 08:20:07 pm »
Meatl detecting sites are claiming it sold for 2.2 million pounds, about 3,600.000 USD. wow, is this right?

Offline mihali84

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2010, 08:33:32 pm »
I can only imagine how the losing bidders felt after the sale!  I would guess anger, sadness, and much later happiness that their pockets are still fat with the 2.3mil pounds they would have spent.  ;D 

What a stunning piece of history!
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Offline irish

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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2010, 09:48:06 pm »
Nice video of the helmet at Christies, with a brief description of the type of event it would have been worn at.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11289935

Offline fluffy82

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2010, 05:40:57 am »
It has been sold for 2,8 million euros, about 3.8 million dollars or 2.5 million pounds...

Offline irish

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2010, 08:17:15 am »
Dear Sir or Madam,

Christie's does not disclose the names of buyers, as this information is
confidential.

Thank you for your interest in Christie's.

Sincerely,

Darryl Andrade
Senior Client Service Representative
Christie's Client Service
CHRISTIE'S
Telephone:
London        +44 (0) 20 7389 2886
New York   +1 212 636 2000
Email:
info@christies.com
Detritus, detritus, detritus...ad infinitum...

Offline Rich Beale

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2010, 09:21:17 am »
Obviously. I would be very worried if an auction house gave out information on its bidders to random enquirers. If the buyer chooses to disclose his identity or not that's his business, as to do so would make him the target of thieves and vandals.

I am still hoping that he may turn out to be a philanthropist who might donate or loan the helmet back to the nation.

Offline cliff_marsland

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2010, 01:19:50 pm »
It's a spectacular piece; not $3.6 million spectacular, but the private market has spoken.

People have spent that much on far worse.  At least it's a fine piece of art and very historical.

I'd be happy with a $500 blackware piece.  By the way, what's the best search terms for that kind of stuff?


Offline mwilson603

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2010, 03:37:16 pm »
I would have bought it myself, but the dent on the nose put me off. ;)
regards
Mark

Offline irish

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2010, 07:22:05 pm »
from:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-07/hot-italian-art-lures-u-s-billionaires-duke-s-sale-raises-10-3-millioni.html

"...The Cumbria-based Tullie House Museum & Art Gallery was one of five underbidders, having been pledged 1 million pounds by the National Heritage Memorial Fund. The museum may yet secure the helmet if the unidentified telephone buyer lives abroad and requires an export license, Stephen Deuchar, director of the U.K.-based Art Fund, said.

(Scott Reyburn writes about the art market for Muse, the arts and culture section of Bloomberg News. Opinions expressed are his own.)
Detritus, detritus, detritus...ad infinitum...

Offline Will Hooton

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2010, 08:27:01 am »
It's a spectacular piece; not $3.6 million spectacular, but the private market has spoken.



It seems that it isn't over yet. A Cumbrian MP has called for an export ban to be put on the helmet and he probably could find significant backing. Given the nature of British bureaucracy, if I was the buyer and wanted to remove it from the UK, I'd have sweaty palms.

A somewhat optimistic article, yet I am entirely sympathetic towards the people of Cumbria.

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/fight-on-to-keep-crosby-garrett-roman-helmet-in-britain-1.767185?referrerPath=news

Offline Syltorian

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2010, 09:27:44 am »
Any export ban, so far as I am informed about the British procedure, will be temporary, won't it? I'm wondering, does the owner have the right to refuse to sell (at any price) or can he be forced in the name of public interest (as he could, I believe, if it were a piece of land needed for a construction of national importance)?

If the Cumbrian MP succeeds (considering previous export bans, he probably stands a good chance), some museum (Tullie House, BM or other) will still have to raise 2,3 million GBP at the least. I'm rather pessimistic about the likelihood of this happening in the middle of a economic crisis, and after the severe cuts performed by the British government, but I hope that Tullie House's optimism is more warranted than my pessimism. They're likely better informed than me, anyway...


Offline benito

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2010, 10:32:33 am »
Any export ban, so far as I am informed about the British procedure, will be temporary, won't it? I'm wondering, does the owner have the right to refuse to sell (at any price) or can he be forced in the name of public interest (as he could, I believe, if it were a piece of land needed for a construction of national importance)?

If the Cumbrian MP succeeds (considering previous export bans, he probably stands a good chance), some museum (Tullie House, BM or other) will still have to raise 2,3 million GBP at the least. I'm rather pessimistic about the likelihood of this happening in the middle of a economic crisis, and after the severe cuts performed by the British government, but I hope that Tullie House's optimism is more warranted than my pessimism. They're likely better informed than me, anyway...



The British are beginning to be a bit overstretched.
http://www.mla.gov.uk/news_and_views/press_releases/2010/raphael_drawing
a few  months later
http://www.thearttribune.com/spip.php?article774

Offline mwilson603

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2010, 12:25:49 pm »
The British are beginning to be a bit overstretched.
http://www.mla.gov.uk/news_and_views/press_releases/2010/raphael_drawing
a few  months later
http://www.thearttribune.com/spip.php?article774
What utter rubbish Benito!  We are certainly not overstretched on this front.  Never, ever, underestimate our British ability to stretch ourselves to unprecedented levels of bureaucracy!  ;D
regards
Mark

Offline PeterD

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2010, 02:20:15 pm »
Any export ban, so far as I am informed about the British procedure, will be temporary, won't it? I'm wondering, does the owner have the right to refuse to sell (at any price) or can he be forced in the name of public interest (as he could, I believe, if it were a piece of land needed for a construction of national importance)?


Don't forget there are two owners - the finder and the landowner. Unless one can afford to buy the other out, the item has to be sold.
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Offline Syltorian

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2010, 03:44:01 pm »
Don't forget there are two owners - the finder and the landowner. Unless one can afford to buy the other out, the item has to be sold.

They have already sold it at the auction: they each get half of the 2,3 million (minus the auctioneer fees). The current owner is the anonymous telephone bidder, who may or may not want to take it out of the country. Are there any options for Cumbria if he happens to be British, and doesn't need to export it - and so wouldn't be bothered by an export ban?

Offline Will Hooton

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2010, 04:00:34 pm »
If the buyer is local it's check and mate for Tullie House. They have already admitted that a British buyer would be the worst case scenario.
The most they could do in that case is appeal to display it. I presume he would agree.

Offline irish

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Re: The Crosby Garrett helmet.
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2010, 05:40:41 pm »
The lines have been drawn none the less....the item was initially valuated 200,000.00 - 300,000.00 pounds sterling, and then, within three minutes, was sold for about ten times that amount...the treasure laws are at fault, denigrating bronze to the level of the common classes and there are many instances where silver and gold artifacts should not actually have been called trove, but were, because of the so-called precious metal status.  Just one recent example: the singular viking silver ingot here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-11285708

In my humble opinion, the treasure laws in the UK are nothing but enrichment for the elite and political types, who are literally looting the metal detectorists.  All across Europe these idiotic laws are rampant, and even worse than in the UK!  For every good find the metal detectorist makes, he probably removes many pounds of trash, amounting to metallic pollution, from the soil, and except for rare cases, the pay for that service is miniscule, and many times that is taken away by greedy types in the upper echelons of government and miseducation there.  I do not like these precedents, as it gives all the politicians of the world bad ideas, and believe me, they all want to be able to abscond with finds, if they can but figure a way.

The archaeologists are so busy preserving history they have lost the ability to make history in their own right, and together those two forces, big education and big government, just love to work at keeping people in front of their television sets, soaking up the propaganda and other bizarre informations of little or no worth.  Metal detecting has introduced untold numbers of people to the wonderful world of Numismatics, and much else; it should be considered a boon to the world at large, and instead it more often than not is considered a crime.

That is as wrong as all the faulty laws.

b

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