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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Authentication, Fakes and Frauds (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Fake Alexander III drachm 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Fake Alexander III drachm  (Read 1115 times)
paullo
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« on: September 04, 2010, 09:46:34 pm »

Ten days ago I won an Alexander III drachm on EB (first photo).  I was suspicious of a partial mark on the obverse, but since I could not find similar coin on Fake Coin Report, I thought it might be caused by the edge of the die (how naive I was!).  Two days after I won that coin, another identical coin (second photo) was listed by another seller.  After seeing the latter one, I was convinced that the one I won was a fake and the mark was the cast seam.  To avoid the seam to be seen, the lower part of the second coin was removed.  Look how sharp the obverse was.  Casting technology nowdays is terrifying.

Luckily the seller agreed to cancel my bid after I notified him of the second coin.

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paullo
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 09:48:35 pm »

I found identical reverse on a coin sold on CNG long ago.
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paullo
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2010, 09:50:34 pm »

Here is the photo of a coin with identical reverse sold on CNG.
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paullo
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2010, 09:55:12 pm »

Very similar obverse was found on this authentic coin.  Notice the lower part of herakles head.  That is how it should be.
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Philoromaos
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2010, 01:53:44 am »

The first coin you posted looks fine to me. The line you have circled is a fold in the metal that occured when the coin was struck. While they are die matches these two coins are not identical so cannot be cast twins. The placement of the obverses are way off from each other. I think it's more likely that the second coin which is fake was just cast from a coin struck from the same dies as the first coin you posted. The cng coins are also genuine.
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areich
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2010, 02:08:09 am »

If you accept the first coin as genuine (to which I would agree), why does the second have to be fake?
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rover1.3
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2010, 02:51:14 am »

To paullo

I don't have an opinion about the authenticity or not of the coins in question,but i have noticed that what
you name as a "casting seam" is quite common on many Alexanders, in this exact area of the coin.

This is probably a part of the design on some dies, showing like a seam on coins with quite small flans.This effect is rarely seen on coins with bigger flans.The confusing,is that sometimes this "line" of the design falls to the very edge of the flan,and this makes this "line"to be seen and understanding as a seam.


I would love to hear an expert's explain on this-sometimes confusing- fabric made(in my opinion) effect.

Here is my drachm from Lampsakos,showing exactly the same.I should NOT worry anyway.
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Philoromaos
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2010, 03:01:58 am »

If you accept the first coin as genuine (to which I would agree), why does the second have to be fake?


It looks like a cast to me but I admit Im using my Iphone to view this and the photo is quite poor so I could easily be wrong about it.
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areich
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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2010, 07:54:46 am »

Ok, because I don't see anything suspicious though the picture is not very good.
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Dino
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Anyone have change for a hemidrachm?


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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2010, 08:26:04 am »

I agree with Andreas.  I don't see anything wrong with any of the coins posted on this thread.
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nathan s2
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2010, 11:12:20 am »

i just noticed you put these in the fake reports, do you still think they are fakes?
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Philoromaos
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2010, 11:14:14 am »

No!
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areich
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2010, 11:32:29 am »

They shouldn't have been put in the fake reports until confirmed fake by several knowledgeable people.
A mere suspicion is not enough, because that would make the fake reports useless after a while.
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Minos
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2010, 01:59:30 pm »

What is referred here as a casting seam is indeed part of the design. It's the forelegs of the lion, used to tie the skin around the neck of Herakles.
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2010, 03:06:57 pm »

The coins shown all appear to be genuine to me as well. The comments given above generally summarize my views so I won't repeat them except to say that one should not be in too big a rush to condemn a coin as fake without some credible evidence and serious knowledge of one's subject matter. Just as there are those who refuse to accept fakes for what they are, there are those (amazingly) who refuse to accept genuine coins as such!
This coin does NOT belong in the fake reports, by any means, as it is not fake. The fake reports for this coin and for the other one Paullo added as identical (it is not; nor does it appear to be fake, either) have been removed.
I hope that Paullo will accept that the coin is genuine adn do the right thing by contacting the sellers in question and informing them of his mistake. The sellers may otherwise themselves wrongly believe that the coin is fake.
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Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 06:03:42 pm »

I will take them out of the reports.
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Joseph Sermarini
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 09:33:07 pm »

I already did, yesterday.
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Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Authentication, Fakes and Frauds (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Fake Alexander III drachm « previous next »
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