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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Forum (Moderator: goldenancients)  |  Topic: Time to Speak Out 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Time to Speak Out  (Read 55611 times)
Joe Sermarini
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« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2010, 03:18:22 pm »

I sent out a message to the Forum email list.   Sending takes all night (19,500 on the list).  When I looked at my computer this morning it had done a window's update and rebooted.  It seems I have 13,000 more to send.  Hopefully we will get a few faxes out of from those 19,500.
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Joseph Sermarini
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« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2010, 03:53:02 pm »

OK, I am writing this in the full knowledge that I may get shot down in flames, but here goes anyway, and please bear with me, because whilst it may seem like a crazy idea, it just might work.

To successfully lobby the State department to ensure a decision goes a particular way usually takes a lot of time and resource, and often requires a big name, or large industry, to pull it off.  Take the oil companies, auto manufacturers etc as examples.

Now, with the best will in the world, even though Joe served his country for many years, I doubt that his, or Forvm's, name is at the forefront of the State departments mind as they head into the talks.  And even with Joe's email campaign, if we manage a few thousand people registering their views against the MOU, will that be enough?

So I got to thinking, who would have enough clout to force notice to be taken if they opposed the MOU?  Who would have an interest in ensuring that this MOU didn't happen? 

And then I had a minor flash of inspiration.  (And those of a sensitive disposition please look away now, because what I am about to suggest is almost blasphemous)

I think someone should talk to eBay, and discuss the fact that this MOU will force them to a) police all ancient coin transactions for buyers in the US to ensure that the relevant licences are in place, or b) close down ancient coin sales to the US.  It isn't a huge earner for them compared to other areas of their business, but I am sure that they would much prefer to write one letter and try and avoid any ramifications of the possible MOU than just decide not to do anything.  They are also the size of organisation that would be noticed objecting, and they are American.  Now, I am sure they may try and use the "We are just a market" argument, but as certain fashion houses are now able to hold eBay responsible for what sells through them, I am also darn sure the Italian government would be able to as well.

OK OK, I know that for many eBay are the enemy.  But in this instance the possible MOU is the bigger enemy, and it may be time for a strategic alliance for this battle.

So, Joe, you trade via eBay, and whilst I don't have details about how they operate with business accounts, I am sure that you must have nominated people that you can call who could advise you on the right people to have that higher level conversation with.

Right, and now I expect to either be applauded for lateral thinking, or shot down in big flames....the choice is yours  Smiley

regards

Mark
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Joe Sermarini
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« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2010, 03:59:29 pm »

Great idea.  First you do have to get them to answer the phone or read an email.  Actually I think they are better at this than they used to be.  I don't have the contacts or regrettably the time to work on it.  I hope someone does.
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Joseph Sermarini
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« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2010, 07:49:30 pm »

I don't understand the Italian reasoning. The modern Italians are not "Romans" They are a product of subsequent migrations to the Italic peninsula and are a mixture of a little Romen and Greek, with more German, Balkin and Arabic heratige. The French, Souther Germans, etc. are just as "Roman" as they are. Besides, coins struck in Anatolia, North Africa, etc., have never been "Italian". Furthermore, 1100 yaers after the fall of Rome, peoples from the above mentioned countries migrated to North Amaerica. Thus, Americans are just as "Romen" also-------
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Mark Z
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« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2010, 09:42:55 pm »

I sent out a message to the Forum email list.   Sending takes all night (19,500 on the list).  When I looked at my computer this morning it had done a window's update and rebooted.  It seems I have 13,000 more to send.  Hopefully we will get a few faxes out of from those 19,500.

Hello All!

Thanks to Joe's easy-to-follow email with links, I just sent mine in!

Thank you, Joe!

mz
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Aurelius
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« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2010, 01:05:39 am »

I will try and send a fax tomorrow, but what do we do if this does pass? I don't want to lose my hobby, or switch to collecting some other type of coins.
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goldenancients
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« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2010, 01:09:11 am »

According to the ACCG website, a little over 1100 faxes have been sent to the US State Department through the fax wizard. This number is about 300,000ths of 1% of the US population. Hardly enough people to worry about in the governments eyes. There are only 6 days left to send in your fax. We need EVERYONE to help!

Don't wait! It is your rights that stand to be taken away. Stand up and be counted!

Danny
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Enodia
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« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2010, 01:13:38 am »

i have forwarded Joe's email to all my friends, along with a brief message about the ACCG's link. even though not one of them collects coins they can all see the unfairness of this proposal and its potentially far reaching implications.
perhaps if everyone does the same?

~ Peter
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C.Gallvs
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« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2010, 06:54:30 am »

Dear Collector Friends,

Does it make sense to fill in the Fax-form if I live in Europe (I am an European citizen, from the former "Pannonia")?

Best regards,
C.Gallvs
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« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2010, 07:02:29 am »

Just sent my fax and made a donation.  I was totally floored when I received the auto email from Joe.  As a new collector and someone who is just learning this would totally ruin my chances to enjoy this hobby.  I love being able to hold a piece of history in my hand and perhaps give them to m children.
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« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2010, 07:04:35 am »

Dear Collector Friends,

Does it make sense to fill in the Fax-form if I live in Europe (I am an European citizen, from the former "Pannonia")?

Best regards,
C.Gallvs

I must have receive 10 Emails about this and most of them (if not all) urged everyone to send a fax, not just US collectors.
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« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2010, 07:24:54 am »

OK Smiley

My text to "Compose Your Letter":
"Today people living in the territory of Italy is not the same as the ancient inhabitants of Italia. The current area of Europe is in the place of former Roman Empire. Many citizens migrated from this Europe and is now populated in the USA. They also have got the right to the ancient Roman culture."

Sorry for my bad english!
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« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2010, 07:48:53 am »

I sent mine, and forwarded it to a friend who is not on FORVM (yet). I can do this with other such friends.
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« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2010, 08:26:33 am »

I find this MOU, what I've read of it, practically unviable. In so many ways, this has no chance to succeed as it cannot, really, be enforced. I also have a hard time imagining how the US authorities could give strenght to something that, as others pointed out, is so grossly anti-american.

That sound like a bad dream, with it's fantasies and allegories. It has no ground in reality.

Hope I'm right...

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Bud Stewart
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« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2010, 09:22:11 am »

I also just forwarded Joe's e-mail to more than a dozen of my closest friends.  I don't usually forward e-mails, so hopefully they will recognize the importance of this issue to me and 'join the cause'.
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« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2010, 11:49:52 am »

I am sending the fax out now. I concur with some of the thoughts that many of these people may very well have their minds made up already, but I don't see any other option other than faxing them to let them know mine.

Specifically what would it mean if this MOU was indeed imposed on us ? As I understand it, this is a recommendation by our government involving the import of Roman coins that will be self imposed, and not part of some larger campaign about increased restrictions on coin collecting ?

How would this affect the coins that are dug up in places like France, Spain, England etc ? which were also part of the Roman Empire. "Of Italian Origin" is the sticking point and how far that really goes, and what specifically that means. I'm interested in hearing someone make an argument that the cultural heritage of the Romans in these other places also belongs to the Italian state. If Roman coins found in France are indeed of 'Italian Origin' what about all the ancient ruins all over France, should they be piece by piece dismantled and sent back to Italy because they are of 'Italian Origin' ? This may sound obtuse but that is the basis for this line of reasoning.

I fully appreciate the property rights aspect, and I agree that being guilty till proven innocent about ownership is a serious policy decision that has sweeping implications.

When will be made aware of what the ruling is ?

- Mike
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taurisker
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« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2010, 02:12:19 pm »

Dear FORVM,

I´m citizen of Austria/EU and I´m member of FORVM for many years ... for us colleagues here in Europe, this is unbelievable, too ... we´ll do our best to support you, hopefully we win this match!!!

US people have the right to participate in these things of "universal culture" ... I did an anouncement on our austrian board in this case and I spread the email of FORVM all over my colleagues and numismatic contacts ... hope this will help a little.

I do support this with my voice over the ACCG Fax Wizard.

Thank you that you have informed us.

Cordiali Saluti
Herfried
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« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2010, 02:30:58 pm »

Joe's e-mail campaign certainly got my attention and as a result, my fax was sent last night. 
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« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2010, 02:46:22 pm »

As mine was too Grin  Even tho I am Canadian I can see the implications that would affect myself and other non US folk.
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Bud Stewart
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« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2010, 03:25:10 pm »

I posted Mr. Sayles letter on another a site that caters to collectors of US Coinage.  I invited those collectors to help us in our efforts.
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« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2010, 03:48:44 pm »

I too support the coin collecting community in this -- it won't just affect US citizens, it will affect all of us.
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« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2010, 05:11:36 pm »

I've sent mine in, hope it does some good. This is a hot topic around the world not just the US. It was discussed at the recent gathering of my local coin club, even by people with no real interest in ancient coins, with no supporting voices for the MOU.
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« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2010, 06:51:04 pm »

According to the ACCG website: "Faxes from 1329 discrete addresses opposing import restrictions on ancient coins from Italy have been logged through the ACCG Fax Wizard as of 5:30 PM CST, Friday April 16."

Time is running out to send in your fax. The deadline is April 22. We need as many people as possible to send in faxes.
Make your voice heard and protect your rights.

-Danny
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« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2010, 09:00:23 pm »

Email received and fax sent. This is just as disturbing to a new collector such as myself, as it must be to the more experienced and worldly.

~ Charles
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« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2010, 06:57:03 am »

I have just sent my fax. Archeological illegal digging is a real problem here in Italy, but the MOU in my opinion is of no help. As ancient coin collectors we can do much, simply by ignoring offerings coming from dubious sources.
Greetings.
Fabio
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