Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Please look at the RECENT ADDITIONS and PRICE REDUCTIONS at the top and bottom of the page. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES! Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Point your mouse to a coin in RECENT ADDITIONS or PRICE REDUCTIONS on this page to see the the price. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES!


FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Forum (Moderator: goldenancients)  |  Topic: Time to Speak Out 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Time to Speak Out  (Read 56048 times)
cliff_marsland
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 844

O Sulla, please save us from fools and villains.


WWW
« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2010, 12:26:58 pm »

It's a very slippery slope when one forces the burden of proof that the item is "legitimate" (very nebulous term) onto the collector/dealer.  For every one illegally digged (sic) coin there's 500 legitimate collector who is hurt.

The truth may be rude, but I see nothing that's fundamentally untrue.
Logged

commodus
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Deceased Member
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3545



« Reply #126 on: August 30, 2010, 04:11:33 pm »

Please, stop the unnecessary and unfair generalizations and distortions.
The issue raised by the Greek Government, is a result of appearing on the market freshly digged hoards of small denominations ancient coins from the Greek mainland, which hardly could be found far from their place of minting.
These examples are results of criminal digger's and smuggler's work or it's a part of old collectionpolice
[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]


Fair enough, if so. However (and a big "however" it is), the verbiage I've seen thus far suggests something far more broad and similar to the Italian import ban request (i.e. the MOU).
Logged

Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)
Will Hooton
Comitia Curiata II
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1080


SUSPIRIUM PUELLAM GULIELMUS THRAEX!


« Reply #127 on: September 03, 2010, 11:07:26 am »

In his blog Paul Barford today writes;

"No doubt there will be wild jubilation in the caves of the coin elves tonight as the news seeps underground that ancient coins were not included by the State Department in the extension of the bilateral cultural property agreement between Italy and the USA. Nobody knew whether Italy had asked for this or not, it seems they had not. ".

So case closed? Please also enjoy Barford's sour fume! Smiley
Logged

cliff_marsland
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 844

O Sulla, please save us from fools and villains.


WWW
« Reply #128 on: September 03, 2010, 11:57:22 am »

This is good news. Very cool!

I'm not familiar with Paul Bradford.  I usually don't frequent such media, as listening to Lord Haw-Haw would be pretty interchangeable.  I wonder if Bradford signs on "Archaeology Calling, Archaeology calling?" (a joke based on those familiar with William Joyce's sign-on phrase).

John Enos has one of the best mean point and laugh type laughs.  Big Enos laugh here.  This is great!

That bit of news made my Friday better. The triumph of freedom is always welcome news.  At first, I was pretty worked up about the whole mess, but I came to realize countries like Italy and Greece will probably be snubbed.  Now if Syria, Egypt, or such asks, then we might have something to worry about...
Logged

areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9353



WWW
« Reply #129 on: September 03, 2010, 12:02:34 pm »

Since when do Elves live in caves?
What a dummy.  Grin
Logged

Will Hooton
Comitia Curiata II
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1080


SUSPIRIUM PUELLAM GULIELMUS THRAEX!


« Reply #130 on: September 03, 2010, 12:10:38 pm »


John Enos has one of the best mean point and laugh type laughs.  Big Enos laugh here.  This is great!


What bout NelsonGrin
Logged

Robert_Brenchley
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7396

Honi soit qui mal y pense.


WWW
« Reply #131 on: September 03, 2010, 12:13:40 pm »

In his blog Paul Barford today writes;

"No doubt there will be wild jubilation in the caves of the coin elves tonight as the news seeps underground that ancient coins were not included by the State Department in the extension of the bilateral cultural property agreement between Italy and the USA. Nobody knew whether Italy had asked for this or not, it seems they had not. ".

So case closed? Please also enjoy Barford's sour fume! Smiley

It seems everyone isn't as daft as Barford.
Logged

Robert Brenchley

My gallery: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
Gert
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1130



WWW
« Reply #132 on: September 03, 2010, 12:33:36 pm »

Let's celebrate when the source of this news is something else than Mr. Barford's blog.
Regards
Gert
Logged

Dino
Procurator Caesaris
Quaestor
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537


Anyone have change for a hemidrachm?


WWW
« Reply #133 on: September 03, 2010, 12:37:30 pm »

See here on the Greek issue:

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#docketDetail?R=DOS-2010-0339
Logged

El Reye
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 273



« Reply #134 on: September 03, 2010, 08:05:15 pm »

Has anyone seen any definitive collaborating statements from any governmental agencies supporting Mr. Barfords statements?

Cameron
Logged

“We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.”
Aesop   Greek slave & fable author (620 BC - 560 BC)
goldenancients
IMPERATOR
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1032


Danny Jones


WWW
« Reply #135 on: September 03, 2010, 09:03:57 pm »

I'm hesitant to post a link to Barford's page on this board, but here it is in his own words:
http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2010/09/coins-not-in-italy-cultural-agreement.html

And also a commentary on his announcement:
http://culturalpropertyobserver.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.html

Apparently, Barford was privy to some leaked inside information, but has yet to share his source. Nothing has yet been said officially.
Logged

cliff_marsland
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 844

O Sulla, please save us from fools and villains.


WWW
« Reply #136 on: September 03, 2010, 10:41:11 pm »

Haha, love the Nelson!

Today happened to be my coin buy.  I've been saving, so it wasn't expensive, but it was the Roman Republic!  Take that, Bradford!  Hopefully he'll read this page so I can say,

HA-HA!

I rarely order pizza, but I think this calls for a celebratory pizza!  (Unfortunately no coal-fired oven pizzerias around here - yum) but it's round and pizza in the academic sense.







Logged

commodus
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Deceased Member
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3545



« Reply #137 on: September 03, 2010, 10:50:41 pm »

There is nothing on any source I can find apart from this blog. No credible entity has thus far confirmed, let alone announced, this. I certainly hope that it is accurate.
Logged

Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)
Will Hooton
Comitia Curiata II
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1080


SUSPIRIUM PUELLAM GULIELMUS THRAEX!


« Reply #138 on: September 07, 2010, 03:41:25 am »

An article of interest appearing in The Guardian, regarding an interview with Greece's Minister of Culture, Giorgos Voulgarakis.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jul/11/parthenon.arttheft

Logged

commodus
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Deceased Member
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3545



« Reply #139 on: September 07, 2010, 10:25:12 am »

Many of these objects would not exist today (certainly not in their present states of preservation) had they not been removed in centuries past. Regardless, there is a vast gulf of difference between individually unique artifacts of the sort discussed in the article and coins, which were minted in quantity for economic transactions.
Logged

Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)
commodus
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Deceased Member
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3545



« Reply #140 on: September 12, 2010, 01:13:15 pm »

The issue raised by the Greek Government, is a result of appearing on the market freshly digged (sic) hoards of small denominations ancient coins from the Greek mainland, which hardly could be found far from their place of minting.

Actually, the exact terms of the MOU rquest from Greece have not been made public, so no one knows the details. The public summary that has been released, however, suggests no time frame on when items were dug and states that the items involved include artifacts from the neolithic period through the 18th century, including coins, from within Greece's present borders.

Incidentally, I fear the jubilation about the Italian MOU matter being settled is premature. As far as I can tell, the State Department has made no decision yet.
Logged

Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)
El Reye
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 273



« Reply #141 on: September 14, 2010, 01:14:12 pm »

Thanks Harlan and Curtiss
I just posted my comments in opposition to the restrictions on Greek coins with the State Department using the link provided in your e-mail. You made it real easy.
Maybe you could provide the link to Joe so he could paste it here.

Cameron
Logged

“We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.”
Aesop   Greek slave & fable author (620 BC - 560 BC)
areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9353



WWW
« Reply #142 on: September 14, 2010, 01:18:48 pm »

Here's the link from HJB's email:

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480b4e289
Logged

goldenancients
IMPERATOR
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1032


Danny Jones


WWW
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2010, 02:22:11 pm »

I just submitted my comments. Be advised that we only have until the 22nd of September to submit comments to the State Department.  The more comments that are sent, the bigger our voice as a community will be, showing that the ancient coin collecting community might be relatively small, but is a proactive force that will stand against any encroachment upon individual property rights of numismatic objects, and that restrictions on the trade of ancient coins are both unfair and discriminatory. 

Danny
Logged

Mark Fox
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 827


« Reply #144 on: September 17, 2010, 11:17:32 am »

Dear Board,

Celtic coin researcher John Hooker has been keeping the Moneta-L mailing list informed on the current status and character of the commentary regarding the Greek MOU.  As has already been stated, the deadline for submissions is September 22, and it appears, as of today, that the opposition will lose unless something changes quick...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Moneta-L/message/97177

I thought it would be good to point this fact out and give everyone here a chance to make an informed decision before those in authority decide.   

 
Sincerely,

Mark Fox
Michigan
Logged

goldenancients
IMPERATOR
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1032


Danny Jones


WWW
« Reply #145 on: September 17, 2010, 12:08:02 pm »

To quote a disturbing excerpt from the Moneta-L post that mark linked to above,

Of the last 100 submissions to the State Department, 91% are clearly in favor of stopping all commercial imports of any ancient Greek material into the U.S. 4% are against the MOU , 4 are in a docx format and 1 is blank. The total submissions received are now at 411 and including today, there are only six days left.

There was great participation of collectors regarding the Italian MOU in submitting their comments to the State Dept. We need this same fervor in participation for the Greek MOU.

If you haven't submitted a comment, please do so soon here:
http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480b4e289
Logged

cliff_marsland
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 844

O Sulla, please save us from fools and villains.


WWW
« Reply #146 on: September 17, 2010, 12:34:45 pm »

Yes, but how many of the "pro" are real and not just some Dorito-stained cretin filling out some sell us out form letter?  That's assuming those numbers even have credence. Also, couldn't such votes easily be coming from overseas?

We'll have to see what happens.  What's more frustrating than the arrogant demands of a third-rate country is that some Pierre Laval wannabe would agree so such demands, when they are so easily denied.

I'm not a big Greek collector, but the prospect of defying an unjust ban would make it mighty attractive to me.
Logged

areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9353



WWW
« Reply #147 on: September 17, 2010, 01:45:26 pm »

Are there adresses (or at least countries) given?
They could be people from Greece.
Logged

El Reye
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 273



« Reply #148 on: September 17, 2010, 06:10:28 pm »

Quite disappointing,  FORVM has over 10000 members and yet there are only 411 comments on this issue submitted to the State Department and a lot of those are in favor of the ban and are being generated by the AIA and a few Universities.

Cameron 
Logged

“We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.”
Aesop   Greek slave & fable author (620 BC - 560 BC)
Mark Fox
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 827


« Reply #149 on: September 17, 2010, 06:40:53 pm »

Dear Board,

I believe the submissions are genuine.  Most, if not all, of the latest ones appear to be written by university students in the US.  They were most likely recruited by the professors.  What I wonder about is if everyone's comments have been successfully posted.  It wouldn't hurt for those who have already submitted theirs to check.       

If anyone wishes to submit their comments, please head my advice and make certain to sign them with your full name (and address if you are willing), and carefully proofread your remarks.  It was very distressing to read several that failed miserably on these points.   


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan       
Logged

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 Go Up Print 
FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Forum (Moderator: goldenancients)  |  Topic: Time to Speak Out « previous next »
Jump to:  

Recent Price Reductions in Forum's Shop


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 6.253 seconds with 71 queries.