Question about ID and Authenticity

[DruMAX]

AR gros tournois Saulcy.V.2

TVRONVS CIVIS City of Tours The reverse center reads 'ROBERTVS DVX'

The small outer text has some version of this:

BNDICTV · SIT · NOmЄ · DNI · nRI · DЄI · IhV · XPI

So I assume its supposed to be Duke Robert of Bar 1354 to 1411 minted after the style of the frence coin. I have never seen one before

I can seen plenty of examples of this TYPE of coin, none with such sharp details, it looks new. I cannot find any examples.

I was just wondering what others think about this coin. The persons says he found the coin in sandy ground and it is 96% silver.

Thanks

[Paleologo]

Gros tournois is not that difficult to find in XF condition, it was the workhorse of French royal coinage for a long time, so many pieces have been minted. But this one is a feudal coin imitating the original coin, and a rather uncommon one as far as i know, so your doubts are legitimate. Anyway, from the photo I don't get any reason to doubt the authenticity of the piece. Lettering is sharp and well struck with the right style, doesn't have the "blurred" look of so many fakes. The coin is in high grade so you shold be able to recognize the distinctive trapezoidal cross section in the letters (from striking letter punches into the die). The tressure of 12 lis is also well defined, so i think you basically have a beautiful coin at hand, but please ask for more advice because I'm no expert in this specific coinage. What's its weight, by the way? 

[DruMAX]

The weight and size are within acceptable tolerances I believe...3.2 grams and 2 1/2 cm wide. I do know this type of coin is rather common but for Robert of Bar I believe this is very rare. That and the polished almost newly minted, real sharp detail made me think it was fake. Its in better shape than most of this coin type that I have seen before and I have NEVER seen an issue for Robert. Thanks for the response.

[Paleologo]

Of course you can never rule out the possibility of a well-done counterfeit while just looking at a picture. If you're thinking about buying the coin, I would definitely ask for professional expertise. Where are you located?

[DruMAX]

I am not going to buy the coin, the coin appeared in a forum posted by a guy who said he found it in Germany and didn't seem to know what it was though he stressed several times that he knew the silver content, as if he seemed to know what the silver content should be. The pictures were rather small and his only posts were to that topic...Very often this type of thing ends up being a faker trying to test a fake...like the guy just recently who came into the same forum with a fake ancient...then when I posted it here, someone found the same coin for sale on a Russian bid site posted just a day after I told him it was, without doubt, a fake...he came here calling everyone idiots and making noise.

I just got the feeling this was a fake but because I cannot even find another one of the exact type to compare it with, and no one save you has even commented on it, I certainly cannot say either way. I have only found this coin mention on one site and in one book on Google books, neither had a picture but the description fit this coin.

Since there doesn't seem to be another example of this coin online...I am keeping the pictures and if I ever see another example I can then compare. I just have a gut feeling that, like has happened before, now he has the attribution and knows it would be an expensive coin and it will end up for sale somewhere...so buyer beware on this one. It might be authentic but who can say? Who knows enough about these and who has seen an example of this coin before?

Thanks for looking...

[Paleologo]

Certainly not a coin I would buy from anyone but a serious dealer or auction house with a specific reputation in medieval coinage. Your remarks don't constitute evidence, but are enough to keep eyes wide open. Thanks for showing 

[Paleologo]

Here you can get more info:

http://www.lamoneta.it/topic/59025-robert-de-bar-gros-tournois/

(you must be registered to see the pictures)

[DruMAX]

Hmmm...I went to register and it tells me I am not allowed to view this forum...

I contacted the admin to see if I can reconcile this. Thanks, I hope the admin allows me to see the thread.

I talked further with the guy who said he found this coin, he says he is just a treasure hunter. He has no plans to sell the coin anyway and just wanted to know what he found. Maybe I was just being a bit paranoid thinking it was fake...

Thanks for the help!

[Paleologo]

Here a few specimens from recent auctions:

CGB MONNAIES XXV (2006), Lot 1360, VF, estimate 200 € sold for 320€+fees

[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

[Paleologo]

Münzen & Medaillen Deutschland Auction 27 (2008), Lot 2611, VF, estimate 700 € sold for 720€+fees

[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

[DruMAX]

I sure do appreciate all your help regarding this matter.