300 and Gladiator make list of 10 most historically inaccurate movies

[Jaimelai]

And please let's not forget one of my early favorites: "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum".  One of the first movies I remember spurring my interest in ancient history (movie/play actually inspired by the Roman playwright Plautus (251–183 BC)).   I think it was the togas and slave girls. 

 

[Enodia]

What is your problem? We are just trying to do a nice conversation here. If you don’t like it, then, just don’t be part of it. You don’t have to sow this kind of arrogance.

hang on a minute there pal...
i don't know why you come off so agressively, but my comment was made toward the movie, not you. i don't care about that particular movie because i don't particularly care about Alexander. my primary field of interest is classical Greek, which ended with Alexander and the homogenized world he left behind.
i would also like to add that i will be a part of any discussion i choose, but if you don't like dissenting points of view then may i suggest that public discussion forums might not be for you?

now back to the topic at hand...
are you saying that the Trojans and the Greeks were of the same stock? that the Dardanians were the same as the Achaeans? that post-Hittite Troy was a mere extension of Mycenaean culture?
just trying to clear the point here.

In the movie it is clear that the war was lasted for few weeks. This is something which can be found from the facts going on in the movie and the dialogs. For example after the Greeks took the ψοαστ the Trojans are saying in the their council that Apollo will give them a great victory <<tomorrow>> and this is what happened. So one day.
After that battle was over, Trojans are saying in their council that <<tomorrow>> they will attack to the Greek camp, and this what happened. So 2 days.
After this attack Patroclos is dead and the next morning Achilles kills Hector. So 3 days.
Then Priam asked from Achiles the body of hector and Achilles said to him that no Greek will attack for ten days. So 13 days.
After this 10 days, the Trojans find the wooden horse, at the same night and until morning the Greeks are inside the city. So 14 days.

and yet there is nothing here which says that they had not been on Trojan soil for 10 years prior. what you have described is the duration of The Iliad, not the war itself. it has been awhile since i saw the movie (and under protest at the time!), so i don't recall whether the opening shows the 1000 ships arriving (actually something more like 1198... i counted them once), in which case you may be right.
however that really is a minor point. if one wants to dissect the inaccuracy of this horrid film then one has merely to look at the death of Agamemnon (and Menelaus? i don't remember). this one unnecessary addition effectively disrupts the entirety of classical Greek mythology while adding nothing to the plot.
and i don't even want to get started on the films' total disregard of the Gods!

~ Peter

[Elefinoras]

hang on a minute there pal...
i don't know why you come off so aggressively, but my comment was made toward the movie, not you. i don't care about that particular movie because i don't particularly care about Alexander. my primary field of interest is classical Greek, which ended with Alexander and the homogenized world he left behind.
i would also like to add that i will be a part of any discussion i choose, but if you don't like dissenting points of view then may i suggest that public discussion forums might not be for you?

I am not coming aggressively mate. I just read what are u writing and answer it. That’s all.
I don’t think that I ever said that you don’t have the right to choose the conversation which u like to be part of. I just said that if u don’t like a conversation then u don’t have to be part of it.

now back to the topic at hand...
are you saying that the Trojans and the Greeks were of the same stock? that the Dardanians were the same as the Achaeans? that post-Hittite Troy was a mere extension of Mycenaean culture?
just trying to clear the point here.

Did u really read my previous post? I don’t think that I ever said that Dardanias was the same as the Achaeans. I also never said that Troy was a mere extension of Mycenaean culture.
I just said that Homer does not separate them as Greeks and Trojans. This is something which I have only see to translated versions.

Trojans were speaking Greeks and they had the same religion as all the other Greeks in the world. The Trojan war was just another civil war among the Greeks. Same as thousand other ancient Greek civil wars between the city-states and their allies.

As far the Dardanians, as far I can tell they had nothing to do with Greeks and they were a totally different nation. However, if what u were trying to say is that Trojans were Dardanians, then u are mistaken. It is true that they had friendly relationships, and according to my study Dardanias were also helped the Trojans to the war. However Trojans were not Dardanians.

Also, the Greeks took part to the war were not all of them Mycenaean, they were also people fro Ionian islands like Odysseus, people from Thessaly, Sparta, Avantians from Eubea like Elefinoras and many-many others. I am just trying to say here that when I say that Trojans were Greeks, doesn’t mean that they were also Mycenaeans. Myceneans were the leaders, but this does not mean that every single Greek who fought in the war was also from Mycene.

and yet there is nothing here which says that they had not been on Trojan soil for 10 years prior.

Of course there is. I explained to u in detail into my previous post. According the movie's facts, the war lasted 14 days.



As I said to my first post, they are many-many inaccuracies in the movie. i just said about few of them, but there is more. One of them is the death of Agamemnon which he was murdered by his wife and her lover.

[cliff_marsland]

It really bugs me that the documentary shows almost never cast an actor who looks remotely like the ruler in question.  Only one show (Engineering an Empire?  They all start to run together) bothered to cast a person who resembled Nero.

The guys playing Aurelian and Trajan sure didn't look like their respective counterparts.

[Elefinoras]

...any way

Top ten historically inaccurate movies in my opinion are.

1. Alexander
2. Troy
3. Gladiator
4. 300
5. Braveheart
6. Helen of Troy

...and some otherr which I dont remember their title.

[fluffy82]

Trojans were speaking Greeks and they had the same religion as all the other Greeks in the world. The Trojan war was just another civil war among the Greeks. Same as thousand other ancient Greek civil wars between the city-states and their allies.

Wasn't Troy a vasal state of the Hittites? I always thought they would have spoken Luvian or Lycian, the language spoken in the rest of the Hittite empire including major parts of Turkey (Anatolia). They probably would have learned Mycenaean or Achaean for diplomatic and economic reasons, but not as a first language.
I think Homeros let them speak Greek (btw, Greek didn't exist as such at the time of the Trojan war) as a facility to his readers. Very much as Vergil let Aeneas and Dido communicate in Latin or Shakespeare lets Marc Anthony speak English in stead of Latin or Greek.

And they sure didn't have the same religion. The "main deity" of the Trojans would have been the Anatolic Apaliunas (or Aplu in Hittite). The Greeks took him back to Greece much later as Apollo. (the first archaeological prove of an Apollo cult on the Greek isles dates from the 9th century BC, almost 300 years after the great war).
The Mycenaeans and Cretans worshipped - amongst others - Deiwos, Diwia and Kore, who became Zeus, Hera and Persephone.

I quite liked the overal atmosphere of the movie though, despite all the "mistakes" or differences with Homeros' Ilias As I liked Alexander, Gladiator and most of the movies mentioned above.

[Elefinoras]

Troy was not a Hittite state. It was a Greek state but however subsrvient to the Hittites.
This is something logical. The geographical position of the city forced the Trojans to give legion to the Hittites. It’s like the other Greek cities build to the minor Asia centuries later, like Halicarnassus, or the island to Rhodes, they were Greek stats but they were forced to give legion to the Persians. However their language and region remained Greek.
Do you really think that the Greeks had the power to attack against a Hittite state? The next logical thing to happen it would be the Hittites to invite Greece. I don’t think that Agamemnon was a retard and I also dot think that the Hittite king was a coward. So, since there is no recording of any attack of Hittites against Greeks that means that those two nations had never something to fight about.
The war in troy was a Greek matter.
Homer’s Iliad is the only document we have today and actually can give us information about the Trojans and the Trojan War. So, I say lets trust him. It’s better to base our conclusions in something rather in nothing.
Eric Slayman, trust Homer, and that was how he found Maecene and Troy. I say let’s do the same.

[Aarmale]

What about Beowulf

[Noah]

If all you want is fun to watch, try Jason and the Argonauts.  P.L.

Just make sure it is the 80's version, not the newer one that was made for TV and way too long.  I don't mind mythologically based movies that are somewhat inaccurate.  Mythology isn't real anyway, so when films elaborate a little I just chalk it up to artistic liberty within a fictional storytelling framework. As for "300," I thought it was filmed beautifully as far as entertainment value is concerned, but absolutely loathed the over-the-top gratuitous violence and sexuality. 

When it comes to historically based movies, you'll be hard pressed to find any that are 100% accurate!  Whether ancient or modern storylines are used, movies will add, modify, or omit facts.  Nothing beats primary texts...period!  Everything else whether written or filmed is just paraphrasing or individual interpretation (i.e. telling a historical event from the perspective of a fictitous individual).  I like to watch historically based movies like "Gladiator," "Troy" (not as factual history, but as aligned with Homer's "Iliad"), "Quo Vadis," and yes Pat, even "Helen of Troy"  because they are more interesting to me than the other comedic, dramatic, action packed, or horror flicks out there.  Plus, I get to sit there and know that it is not all factual while others watching don't know the difference! 

I also liked "Last of the Mohicans" and "Glory" because they were filmed wonderfully (IMO, since all of us obviously have our own) and intended to tug the emotional strings.  That is the kind of inaccurate historical drama that I will watch without worrying about picking it apart.

Bottom Line:  movies are movies...if you want pure fact, stick to primary sources (which can also be skewed when written by biased individuals).

Best, Noah

[Noah]

If you want to get technical the full title of "Ben Hur"  is A Tale of the Christ.  Pretty funny since Jesus is only about 5 minutes of a 4 hour movie!  You have to take these things for what they are...entertainment. 

Yes, "Ben Hur" is pure Hollywood exaggerated entertainment with an historical/religious theme.  However, the point was not to show Christ in the flesh, but to convey that his message is powerful and can transform even in his physical absence.  Thus, Ben Hur himself, after minimal encounters with Christ, was a changed man.  I am not preaching here, just stating the underlying message of the film. 

Best, Noah

[Jay GT4]

I hear ya Noah!
Probably the most accurate film ever made is Mel Brooks "History of the World"!   and let's not forget Python's "The Life of Brian" and "Search for the Holy Grail"

[Noah]

I hear ya Noah!
Probably the most accurate film ever made is Mel Brooks "History of the World"!   and let's not forget Python's "The Life of Brian" and "Search for the Holy Grail"

...and I love all three!!  If you can't get it 100% accurate anyway, then botch it all up  beyond recognition and make us laugh our tails off...  ...what about a more recent movie (albeit not as good as those afore mentioned): "Meet the Spartans"

Best, Noah