tiny chinese cash, coins or talismen ?

[monty]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with these coins. I posted on the i.d board also.

They look to be Chinese cash, but I have never seen them this small. Are they coins, or something else like talisman or charms?

The smallest measures about 16mm.

Also can anyone help with a date/ reign?

Thankyou all in advance.

monty

[leseullunique]

Dear monty, my computer is a little tired so I can't see all pictures and of course I can't give you all identifications but many extra small coins are known in Qing dynasty, those coins are called Degenerate type and it's the exact situation of the coins on the 2 pictures I see.

Best regards

[monty]

hi, thankyou for your input.

i am most intrigued by these small coins. they are a first for me.

i would be most interested if you have any more information in the future about them.

thanks again, monty

[leseullunique]

Now I can see the 8 coins, I confirm all are coins but I'm unable ti identify them completely if I don't have the 2 sides.

On the upper picture, you showed 4 obverse and 4 reverses, pleass put the  8 others sides and I will identify them for you

[monty]

hi leseullunique,

thankyou for your help.

here are pictures of both sides of the coins, hopefully you can tell what they are.

if you need any better pictures i could perhaps private mail them to you.

monty

[leseullunique]

Sorry for long time before answer, here are the identifications

up from left to right

1) Emperor: Xuan Zong (1821-1851)
obv: DaoGuang tongbao
rev: Boo Su ( for Suzhou, Jiangsu)
2) Emperor De Zhong ( 1875-1908)
obv: GuangXu tongbao
rev Boo Fu (for Fuzhou, Fujian)
3) Emperor: Xuan Zong (1821-1851)
obv: DaoGuang tongbao
rev:?
4) Emperor: Mu Zong (1862-1874)
obv: TongZhi tongbao
rev: Boo Su ( for Suzhou, Jiangsu)

bellow from left to right
1) Emperor: Xuan Zong (1821-1851)
obv: DaoGuang tongbao
rev: Boo Su ( for Suzhou, Jiangsu)
2) Emperor: Xuan Zong (1821-1851)
obv: DaoGuang tongbao
rev: Boo Su ( for Suzhou, Jiangsu)
3)Emperor Ren Zong (1796-1820)
obv: JiaQing tongbao
rev: Boo Shan (for Xi'an, Shaanxi)
4) Emperor: Xuan Zong (1821-1851)
obv: DaoGuang tongbao
rev: Boo Su ( for Suzhou, Jiangsu)
(surprising wide rim, I will try to find more informations)

all these coins are private casting so it's extremely rare to find 2 identical coin, but it's easy to find a few coins with same mint refered.

Regards

[monty]

hi, thankyou for the great i.d and your time.

when you say private casting, does that mean the coins are unofficial or fake? or perhaps tokens?

thankyou again, monty

[monty]

hi leseullunique,

i have emailed you a picture of some other coins.

monty 

[leseullunique]

Private casting is unofficial cansting during Qing dynasty the coins are smaller than official size, they was probaly casted in the mint with a un official mould or by others people to seems more rich.

[epmunt]

Some mistakes:

up from left to right

3)  Private imitation of Japanese   ( The pictures are upside down)
obv: Kan'ei tsuuhou (kuan yong tong bao)
rev:  Bun (Wen) on top

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/roberts/coins/Kaneibasics.html




bellow from left to right
3)Emperor Ren Zong (1796-1820)
obv: JiaQing tongbao
rev: Boo Yun (for Yun Nan)

[epmunt]

I still believe a lot them were actually from official mint, in the late dynasty e.g. TongZhi and guang xu, all the official mints suffered from financial crisis, not enough brass to mint the coins. thus they made those small coins.
Similar story as late roman AE4, those tiny coins just before the empire collapse.  (most of them are still from official mint, although there are also private and barbarian issues)

[monty]

thankyou all for your help, a most interesting group of coins.

regards, monty