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Author Topic: A scratched up mess....  (Read 3420 times)

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Offline Dino

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A scratched up mess....
« on: October 29, 2009, 08:28:41 am »
Recently purchased this coin out of a dealer's junk bin:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-46709

(Once the picture comes up, click on it so see it full size)

Someone had tried to clean it and just made a mess out of it.

Most of the scratches don't appear to go into the metal itself, the patina is just scratched off.

Here's the question, at this point, should I just consider stripping off what remains of the patina or should I just leave it as is?

If I decide to strip the patina, what's the best way to do it?

Offline Danny S. Jones

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Re: A scratched up mess....
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 09:39:09 am »
There's not much left of the patina to worry about. I'd see what a brass brush would do for the surface. Some Dellars might darken up the light spots and hide some of the scratches.

Danny

Offline Mayadigger

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Re: A scratched up mess....
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 08:28:56 pm »
Ave Dino!

A superb coin in ghastly condition, my friend, that screams to be restored to a semblance of reality.

Here's what I'd do if the coin were mine: feel free to disagree, anyone, but try to be kind, ok?

As noted above, your coin's patina is a real mess, while the underlying details and metal appear to be intact and sound. You can clean/restore this coin two different ways:

1st) Electrolysis: but not recommended unless you really know what your doing.  >:(

2nd) MY Choice: Soak your coin for a week or so in GG's #1. During that time, use a Dremel SBBB, under running water, to begin removing all the remaining patina, returning the coin to the soak after each brushing.

Once all of the original patina has been removed, look close at the coin’s details. If they all appear to be to your approval, re-patina, wax and flip. If not, see below:

Occasionally, ancient coins in this similar condition (IE: ill-cleaned and metal-scratched) need just a bit more work; to remove the scratches in the metal, you’ll need to use a number of DD rubber Dremel tools. Begin with the black ones, under running water as always, to smooth off the scratches, then graduate to the DD rubber coral tools, and finally to the very smooth grit gray tools.

At this time, after smoothing off the scratches, cleaning between the legends, portraits and reverse legends, your coin will appear as good as it can be, considering the over-all condition.

You can then re-patina it with any number of products; then wax and flip.

Best regards,

Kevin
"Goodbye, Livia: never forget our marriage!"

Offline Dino

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Re: A scratched up mess....
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 10:15:13 pm »
OK, stripped of what was left of the patina and the scratches, unfortunately went into the surface of the coin.  Looked pretty bad.  I followed Kevin's advice and smoothed the fields as best I could and repatinated with sulfur and a copper compound which gave it a blackish green patina with some blue green highlights.  Normally, I wouldn't consider doing that to a coin, but it was so messed up I thought I'd give it a try.  Can't really get a great picture of it (I hate photographing bronze coins.  Just can't seem to get a good pic), but for what it's worth, I tried.  Before and after posted here so you can see both right next to each other.

Thoughts?


Offline casata137ec

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Re: A scratched up mess....
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 11:54:41 pm »
Looks good to me. (from what I can see of it! lol) Have you tried to lighten the pic in photoshop or somthing? Care to expound on the repatination technique?

Chris
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Offline Mayadigger

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Re: A scratched up mess....
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 01:37:18 am »
Ave Dino,

Looks good to me. (from what I can see of it! lol) Have you tried to lighten the pic in photoshop or somthing? Care to expound on the repatination technique?

Chris

Like Chris, I think you've done a great job of cleaning, but I believe that your repatination could be better, but that's just my opinion, of course. If you're happy with the final result, it's done; wax and flip:)

On the other hand, and I'm just being 'Kevin' here, I think the new patina looks just a bit 'flat', if that makes sense. You now have an excellent coin with very clear/crisp details, but due to the new near mono-chromatic green patina, all these nice details are a bit smudged, and may be a bit lost with the coin in hand.

If you can trust me, try this:

Use your SBBB to remove the false patina. Soak in JAX Brown for +/- 20-40 seconds. Remove and rinse in running water. Do Not Scrub with a toothbrush or rub it with your fingers. Do Not pat dry and handle the coin by the edges. Allow the coin to dry on a fingernail brush in sunlight or somewhere a bit warm until all the moisture is gone. Then wait another hour or two, but no more. Still with me...?  ::)

At this point your coin's surface on both sides should appear to be a dusty-looking brownish/black color; this is good. Now, place a soft thin cotton towel on a firm surface, one layer only. Then set the coin on the towel and very, very gently use your fingers to swirl the bottom surface of the coin to the towel in circular motions just four or five times, okay?

What you're trying to accomplish at this stage is to buff off just enough of the JAX to give your coin a sort of 3D/natural wear effect; IE, the portrait, legends, and Rx details should appear just a bit lighter than all the open fields on both sides.

Go slow with the 'buffing' on both sides; after each buff examine the surface closely as to it's appearance. When you think it's 'almost done', it's done...trust me.   8)  The residual effects of the JAX will 'perfect' your coin's new patina. DO NOT OVERBUFF THE COIN! JAX can be tricky stuff, especially JAX Brown. Over-buffing too soon will turn the new patina black rather that brown.

If done correctly, your coin should appear to be as those seen in the second attached photo; all were cleaned/restored by the same method as noted above...cleaned by me.  ;-)

If you're not happy with the result, remove the patina with a SBBB under-running water and repeat the above noted process with shorter/longer JAX soaks until you get it right; remember, repatination is an art not a science.

Best regards,

Kevin
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Offline Dino

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Re: A scratched up mess....
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 08:17:37 am »
Chris-

Patination:  Liver of Sulfur and Cupric Nitrate.  Soaked in Liver of Sulfur and let dry.  Buffed a bit.  Soaked in Cupric Nitrate after heating the coin a bit and let dry.

Kevin, I went with Liver of Sulfur and Cupric Nitrate for a couple of reasons, 1) to try to get colors that were close to the patina that was left on the coin, and 2) the scratches are not completely gone.  The darker patina seems to cover them better.  I may try to lighten it a bit though and see what happens.

Offline bruce61813

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Re: A scratched up mess....
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2009, 01:21:11 pm »
I hope that you have started the re-patination process. the coin is still in fair shape, but need to be treated for BD, it still has what appears to be active bronze diease. that should be delt with first. Don't worry about the dark red, but the pale blue-green needs to be removed and the coin soaked and treated.


Bruce
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