Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. STORE WIDE SALE!!! 10% OFF EVERYTHING!!! WE ARE OPEN AND SHIPPING!!! We Are Working From Home, Social Distancing, Wearing Masks, And Sanitizing To Pack Orders!!! Please Call Us If You Have Questions 252-646-1958 Welcome Guest. Please login or register. STORE WIDE SALE!!! 10% OFF EVERYTHING!!! WE ARE OPEN AND SHIPPING!!! We Are Working From Home, Social Distancing, Wearing Masks, And Sanitizing To Pack Orders!!! Please Call Us If You Have Questions 252-646-1958


FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numism  |  Reading For the Advanced Collector  |  Topic: Smoothing and minor tooling of a double sest. of Trajan Decius 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Smoothing and minor tooling of a double sest. of Trajan Decius  (Read 2570 times)
curtislclay
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11001



« on: August 27, 2009, 03:56:10 pm »

The first coin below is in the upcoming Gorny & Mosch Auction 181, Oct. 2009, lot 2360, and is described in the catalogue as "Fine black-brown patina, fields smoothed, otherwise EF."

Several members of the German Numismatikforum consider this coin to have been completely reworked on the obv., every detail remade, while others, with whom I agreed, saw evidence of smoothing, but considered the details of the portrait and obv. legend to be substantially original, and hardly tooled at all.

The second coin below is an untooled specimen from the same obv. die, which I found through Joaquim Blay's online die study of Decius' double sestertii, www.qblay.com/DeciusDS . Blay also lists two specimens from the same dies both sides as the Gorny piece, but this other specimen shows the details of the obv. die more clearly, which are in question here.

Several details of the Gorny piece HAVE been altered, which I did not suspect before identifying the die: the lower end of the circlet of the radiate crown and the lowest ray on the crown have been altered into two bows, as of a laurel wreath; the outer wreath tie has been given an extra bend at its tip; and the fold of cloak below the wreath ties had been strengthened and closed at the end, making it into a distinct loop.

It also looks as though the stippling of the emperor's hair has been strengthened all over, particularly below the circlet of the crown.  This I DID suspect before identifying the die!

However, comparison with the untooled piece will show that virtually every other detail of the portrait and obv. legend is original and unaltered, as I and several others originally thought.

I am posting here because the images are too large to be accepted by the German forum. An additional advantage is that I save myself the labor of trying to express these comments in German!







* Decius2SestTooled.jpg (69.96 KB, 700x350 - viewed 13 times.)

* Decius2SestUntooled.jpg (56.57 KB, 707x356 - viewed 9 times.)
Logged

Curtis Clay
Frans Diederik
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2833


carpe diem, vita brevis est!


« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 01:13:59 pm »

'Minor tooling' now apears to be 'miner tooling'!
Even the full cheeks have been reduced to a gaunt facial expression, which in itself looks quite good, but is far from original. The artist at work here, has done a remarkable job and I wonder how such re-engraving can be done without visibly damage the original patination?


Frans
Logged
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6707


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 04:32:22 pm »

If it is a question of skillful use of touch-up color, and we are dealing with a real 'conservation artist' here, if Frans is right, as I suspect, and acetone doesn't touch it, I wonder whether ultraviolet light might be revelatory.  Not invasive, anyhow.  Depends on what the touch-up fluid was.  So much as to the apparently undamaged patina.
As for that red color, it looks as if it is the usual underlayer of corrosion...
Pat L.
Logged
mix_val
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1202


« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 05:34:36 am »

Disturbing.  Knowledge of portrait style sure helps you spend your money wisely.
Logged

Bob Crutchley
My gallery of the coins of Severus Alexander and his family
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=16147
larsporsenna
Guest
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 09:32:58 am »

i noticed on ex# 1, that there seems to be a patina change/ defect or ?? just to the upper right of the nose..is this  a result of the photography Huh
ive seen this before.. any comments.
cinecias
Logged
areich
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8764



WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 10:26:08 am »

It looks like smoothed encrustations. It's probably not as red as those on the second coin,
because the coin was painted over after tooling it.
Logged

Andreas Reich
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6707


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2009, 02:18:31 pm »

I saw that, too, and I thought the same as Andreas.  That is what convinced me that a very skilled conservator had been at work on it.
Pat L.
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numism  |  Reading For the Advanced Collector  |  Topic: Smoothing and minor tooling of a double sest. of Trajan Decius « previous next »
Jump to:  

Recent Price Reductions in Forum's Shop


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.659 seconds with 36 queries.
All coins are guaranteed for eternity
zoom.asp