How many Ancient Coin Collectors are out there?

[Danny S. Jones]

I was looking at another website that sited some stats for modern coin collecting. It said that over 90% of coin collector's are men. That surprised me that it was that high. But, I'm not how sure how accurate the stats were.

I began to wonder how widespread the world of ancient coin collecting is, as in... how many serious collectors are out there?
Of the 10000+ FORVM members, there's probably around 200 or so active on the boards, and less than 10% overall who have more than 10 posts. Of course, that's probably not an accurate indicator of worldwide numbers, but I'd have to say that FORVM is THE hub for ancient collectors.

Does anyone have any stats or a substantiated approximation of the size of this hobby?

[commodus]

I have no idea how you'd find these stats, if indeed they have even been compiled. For whatever it is worth, while I know of female collectors (though very, very few), I actually personally know none at all -- and this goes for all fields of coin collecting, not only ancients.

[gavignano]

Some of our most prolific posters have been female, although a few of them have been fairly silent lately. One of our most respected posters - slokind - is female.

[Danny S. Jones]

Another stat that I found:

Wikipedia states that the ACCG (Ancient Coin Collectors Guild) boasts "a total membership of nearly 6,000 collectors." In comparison,  the ANA (American Numismatic Association) "claims a membership of over 30,000."

Again, membership to a certain organization cannot offer enough information to hypothesize about the worldwide number of collectors.

So... I'll keep searching for info.

[Paul D3]

Forum states the following ratio on its stats page:

Male to Female Ratio: 13.9:1

We know that the total membership is ove 10,000 so I beleave this is probibly acurate, generaly, even though many don't state their gender when they join.

[Noah]

This is purely a guess, but I would surmise that there are many, many more collectors of modern coins (both US and world coins) than ancients (of any period).  I have seen numerous posts on these boards of people who started with US or modern world coins and then, one way or another, discovered the world of ancients.  In fact, I came upon ancients in this very fashion.  I collected modern world coins from nine years old, 1983, on until I saw an add to purchase an ancient coin in a 2003 catalog in for US coins.  You know the story...every aunt and uncle you know brings you a world coin from a nation they visit on vacation.  Pretty soon you have a couple dozen or so (a kids collection).  I bet lots of people do this.  Assessing the number of actual collectors of ancients would be an almost impossible feat.  Anyway, the fewer the better...so that I will have less competition for the coins I want...but not too few...so I can have stimulating discussions and view other wonderful collections.  

Best, Noah

[Danny S. Jones]

Also found this:

http://esty.ancients.info/numis/intro3.html
"In the U.S., collectors are few and far between. There may be 10,000 or so, with a couple thousand very serious collectors. But, in Europe, every coin shop has some ancients and collectors are more common. But, the web has made the world much smaller and you don't have to collect alone, even if you are many miles from anyone else who collects."

Not sure where he gets his numbers, but I'm inclined to believe that it may be in the ballpark. Anyone concur or disagree?

[commodus]

Also found this:

http://esty.ancients.info/numis/intro3.html
"In the U.S., collectors are few and far between. There may be 10,000 or so, with a couple thousand very serious collectors. But, in Europe, every coin shop has some ancients and collectors are more common. But, the web has made the world much smaller and you don't have to collect alone, even if you are many miles from anyone else who collects."

Not sure where he gets his numbers, but I'm inclined to believe that it may be in the ballpark. Anyone concur or disagree?

I'd think probably about accurate. Honestly, I don't think one is really a collector of ancients unless one is a serious collector of them. The 10,000 number seems on the high side to me (for US collectors) but I imagine that includes those who aren't ancient coin specialists but rather are coin collectors who happen to have some ancients.
I live in a city of about a half million people and I am one of only three serious collectors of ancient coins of whom I am aware. Of course, there are others who will occasionally buy an ancient here or there but the three of us are it as far as serious collectors go.

[commodus]

Some of our most prolific posters have been female, although a few of them have been fairly silent lately. One of our most respected posters - slokind - is female.

As to the female collectors question, there are indeed several active members of this board -- Slokind, Arizona Robin, Helvetica, etc.-- who are female. Obviously there are female collectors and some very serious ones. I just don't know any personally, however, and that includes collectors of modern coins as well.

[Bacchus]

In my entire country (Northern Ireland) - with a population of 1.7 million - I know of only 5 other "serious" collectors of ancients - all male.

It's worth mentioning that FORVM is certainly the most active hub for "the English speaking world" there are others out there of other languages that haven't been considered.

Malcolm

[cliff_marsland]

It's probably a good thing (for collectors) that ancient coins aren't *that* popular.  The subsequent lower prices (I marvel that one can get a common but still 1500 year-old coin for $5) make it easier for general collectors.

At a recent regional coin show, there were hundreds and hundreds of American/modern coin dealers, but only 2 ancients.  I ignored all the other booths and hightailed it for the two ancient ones.  I actually managed to get a bargain Heraclius Jerusalem Solidus, so that was cool!

It's the same with my old time radio show hobby.  People interested in the shows aren't that rare, but it's still small enough where it largely flies under the copyright radar (even though the collectors are where the vast majority of the shows come from), and the hobby is largely due to the fact that the advertising agencies/radio stations threw out the electrical transcriptions.

[Danny S. Jones]

In my entire country (Northern Ireland) - with a population of 1.7 million - I know of only 5 other "serious" collectors of ancients - all male.

It's worth mentioning that FORVM is certainly the most active hub for "the English speaking world" there are others out there of other languages that haven't been considered.

Malcolm

That's probably four more collectors of ancient coins than in my country (Thailand) with a population of 63 million. I know of no others besides myself.

Do you know of any large non-English language boards on ancient numismatics?

[Andrew McCabe]

The overall size of the ancient coin market is really rather small, and in the end that's a good indication of how few collectors there are. I work in a business (not numismatics) where every number we discuss is rounded of to X point Y billion, unless it is a big number in which case it is just Z billion give or take. You could swallow the whole ancient coin market in the rounding errors of a single transactio of any big business. Forum probably comes close to market saturation in English language discussion forums and spills over to other languages too. I think Europe is more densely packed than the USA, but even then the mom and pop size (to use an American expression) of coin retailing in any countries I know suggests small numbers. In the end I'd go with a number of less than ten thousand half-way serious collectors spread over the entire world, and perhaps just a thousand collectors are holding up much of the market.

Andrew

[Brian L]

Simply put,
I collect ancient coins,and I know of no of others!
There are several coin shops that I buy modern coins from,
but none carry ancients. If it weren't for the internet I would not be able to buy ancients.

I am very grateful to this FORVM for being my virtual community.

[Marsman]

I live in the Netherlands, and I must see, the 'euro' market is MUCH bigger than the ancient market. It's true that most 'coins & stamps shops' sell ancients, but 9 out of 10 times, they have only common coins in bad shape. So I have to buy most coins I like from the internet.
I don't mind that there are not so many ancient collectors. It's nice showing my collection to people who have never seen a roman coin before!


Regards,

[Danny S. Jones]

If it's true that the number of worldwide ancient coin collectors is that low, then the percentage of collectors that are members of the ACCG is very high indeed. I wonder if V-coins or Wayne Sayles keeps any stats on the ancient community?

[Andrew McCabe]

The same thought struck me. I wonder is the ACCG number right. Also, FORVM seems to have pretty good coverage of the "community", at least so far as English speakers are concerned. I am in touch with communities in other languages, of which I find the Italian and Spanish just as enthusiastic. One aspect I find interesting is that other language forums are interested in different things - Spanish and Italian very strongly in the Roman Republic, English in the Empire and to an extent Greek. I wonder why that is.

Perhaps there are two circles in the community, the 10,000 inner circle who actively are forming collections, and perhaps a much larger number who participate in forums such as this, maybe lurking, maybe owning a few LRBs. I suspect the worldwide ancient coin dealers are mostly kept afloat by the 10,000 or the richer subset thereof.

If it's true that the number of worldwide ancient coin collectors is that low, then the percentage of collectors that are members of the ACCG is very high indeed. I wonder if V-coins or Wayne Sayles keeps any stats on the ancient community?

[commodus]

It's probably a good thing (for collectors) that ancient coins aren't *that* popular.  The subsequent lower prices (I marvel that one can get a common but still 1500 year-old coin for $5) make it easier for general collectors.

At a recent regional coin show, there were hundreds and hundreds of American/modern coin dealers, but only 2 ancients.  I ignored all the other booths and hightailed it for the two ancient ones.  I actually managed to get a bargain Heraclius Jerusalem Solidus, so that was cool!

This is very true. We are fortunate, actually, that there isn't greater interest in our hobby or prices -- already much higher than they were only a short time ago -- would be out of sight.

Regarding shows, I often travel to the big shows in Dallas, Texas, about three hours away from my home city. The annual show where I live attracts no ancient dealers at all, though there are usually two or three dealers who have a few ancients with them. At the big shows in Dallas (a city with a metro population of over six million people), there are typically at most four ancient dealers, together with a few others who have a few anceints to offer. Observing the patterns of other buyers/visitors to the tables of the ancient dealers at the Dallas shows, I am inclined to believe that there are only a handful of serious collectors in that market as well, though there are many, many others who are intrigued by ancients or are casual collectors, buying a few here and there while focusing most of their collecting energy and budget on modern, primarily U.S., coins. The dealers who come to the shows there seem to do well and continue to return year after year, some from as far away as Pennsylvania and Missouri. Many deal in small ancient artifacts, too, though, and this attracts quite a bit of general interest and, doubtless, more business for them.

[Potator II]

Do you know of any large non-English language boards on ancient numismatics?

French : http://fredericweber.grafbb.com/forum.htm
Spanish : http://www.identificacion-numismatica.com/forum.htm

And many more most probably

Potator

[Noah]

Some of our most prolific posters have been female, although a few of them have been fairly silent lately. One of our most respected posters - slokind - is female.

As to the female collectors question, there are indeed several active members of this board -- Slokind, Arizona Robin, Helvetica, etc.-- who are female. Obviously there are female collectors and some very serious ones. I just don't know any personally, however, and that includes collectors of modern coins as well.

Don't forget Tia!  She has some of the most entertaining and eloquent posts, period.

Best, Noah

[Danny S. Jones]

I don't know if I even should post these blasphemous words, but I asked my wife today why more men then women are coin collectors. Her answer: "Cause we like to do constructive things."

It was less of a jab at coin collecting and more of a lead-in to cleaning up my mess I made in the living room while cleaning coins with my kids.

[Andrew McCabe]

I don't know if I even should post these blasphemous words, but I asked my wife today why more men then women are coin collectors. Her answer: "Cause we like to do constructive things."

It was less of a jab at coin collecting and more of a lead-in to cleaning up my mess I made in the living room while cleaning coins with my kids.

To better understand the working of the male mind as coin collectors, I included the following link on "Men and Collections"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Men-Collections-Brian-Jenner/dp/1843305542

in an otherwise entirely serious numismatic discussion on my website called "On the concept of rarity"

http://andrewmccabe.ancients.info/Auctions.html#jump

I was, and am, curious if anyone bothered to click through, but will never know because the click led offsite. It's a bit sad really, the book itself, the fact that this was the sort of micro-joke I occupied myself with whilst writing the text, and indeed the very concept of the essay, searching for things other people do not have, is quite anti-social. I threw a few other mini surprises amongst the 100 pages or so of text, one of my favourite links-away was in my discussion on the 88-82BC Crawford 345/366 Sulla Marius Cinna civil war

http://andrewmccabe.ancients.info/Auctions.html#Csocialwar

when I suggested conferring on the Uncyclopaedia version of the Sulla-Marius rivalry

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lucius_Cornelius_Sulla

I'd hoped at least one person would click the link thinking "he misspelled it". Such self-obsessed musings about the ancient world by me explain in a nutshell why more men than women are coin collectors.

Andrew

[Robert_Brenchley]

Collecting modern coins is easy. You can get a stadard book which tells you every possible variation, exact values, and if you get them slabbed, you have someoone to tell you the exact grade. All you have to do is find the cash and fill in the missing spaces till you get as close as possible to a complete set. Boring!

Ancients need work, research, knowledge of history, and hard-to-find references. If you're working across the border betwen disciplines, say on 'Biblical' coins, you get in the occasional argument. That's where the interest lies as far as I'm concerned, but a great many people won't bother. They don't know what they're missing!

[commodus]

Some of our most prolific posters have been female, although a few of them have been fairly silent lately. One of our most respected posters - slokind - is female.

As to the female collectors question, there are indeed several active members of this board -- Slokind, Arizona Robin, Helvetica, etc.-- who are female. Obviously there are female collectors and some very serious ones. I just don't know any personally, however, and that includes collectors of modern coins as well.

Don't forget Tia!  She has some of the most entertaining and eloquent posts, period.

Best, Noah

True. I just named those who came immediately to mind. There are others as well but not even a fraction of the number of male collectors on here. I think this is pretty true of the hobby in general.

My wife really enjoys my collection and helps me out with researching it and hunting for coins I am actively looking for. She knows Roman coins as well as I do and many of my finest pieces have been gifts from her. Her approach, however, is that of one who is an art historian and was for years a museum curator. She sees the collection as something she is knowledgeable about and appreciates it for what it is but she does not consider it to be "hers." I, however, have never been in the museum field (except as a board member, which is how we met) and have always been a collector (at least since I was nine years old). I still think she sees herself in a curatorial role; the role of collector is somewhat alien to her. She loves going to shows with me and she likes to buy coins but she does not buy for herself but rather for me. She enjoys the hobby but in a way different than I do and has become interested in ancient coins only since being with me. I have tried to make the collection be "ours," but she insists that it is all mine and that if it were "ours," and if she were a collector herself, then she wouldn't know what to buy me for holiday gifts. I am, therefore, content to leave it at that, for obvious reasons! However, I think in time she will regard herself as a collector and my collection as a joint venture belonging to us both. I would very much like that.

[Danny S. Jones]

Well at least we know that the serious collectors are VERY serious. Check out these FORVM stats:

Average online per day:     64.94
Average page views per day:  12375.45

65 people are viewing over 12,000 pages per day! That's over 190 page views per person.

Also, it's growing... slowly, but growing.
Average registrations per day: 3.25