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Author Topic: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?  (Read 1138 times)

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coinheadz

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Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?
« on: July 12, 2009, 03:43:58 pm »
Is this Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?


Thank you for looking!

coinheadz

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Re: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2009, 03:47:48 pm »
Forgot to put the specs-

about 17 - 21mm in diameter

2mm thick, probably thicker even at the center because the obverse image is raised

Weight: I have a poor spring kitchen scale that goes by 10grams or just by ounces - it said it was under 5 grams, but when I compared it in my hand to the weight of a nickel (5 grams), it felt heavier.

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2009, 08:28:59 pm »
Until it's possible to figure out the reverse it's not entirely clear this is Ptolemaic.  It might be, so:

Ptolemaic?  Maybe. 

Cleopatra?  Nope.

PtolemAE

coinheadz

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Re: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 08:33:59 pm »
I was waiting for you PtolemAE :)

Heard you were the guy to talk to about a possible Ptolemaic.
Thank you for responding!

Any other possible directions anyone could point me in?

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 02:15:55 am »
I was waiting for you PtolemAE :)

Heard you were the guy to talk to about a possible Ptolemaic.
Thank you for responding!

Any other possible directions anyone could point me in?

Wish I could be more helpful.

Can you tell me what you think is on the reverse?  That would be very helpful. 

Here are some notes you may find useful:

The obverse does bear a resemblance to some 'Aphrodite' portrait small bronzes of Ptolemy IV (possibly a little later).  Those have this style of portrait with the female figure wearing a 'stephane' and usually have a reverse with double cornucopiae and inscription 'BASILEOS PTOLEMAIOY'.  They are *very* common and often sold as 'Cleopatra' coins on Ebay to maximize the price, but no reputable reference book catalogs written by academic experts on Ptolemaic coinage (Svoronos, Noeske, Morkholm, Weiser, etc.) attribute them as such (rather, about 150 years earlier), and imho the idealized 'crowned' portrait doesn't even remotely resemble 'real' (well-accepted coin types of Cleopatra VII) Cleo portraits.  But I'm not sure precisely what this coin is because I just can't make out the reverse.  It would be cool if it was some unseen type that needs to be studied, but the reverse is too unclear for me to make any judgement one way or another.

I'm pretty sure I've seen 'sprue ears' on Seleukid bronzes, too, but I don't know if this is Seleukid, either. 

Some folks associate 'sprue ears' on Ptolemaic coins to a particular time period but I've found that feature is actually not very helpful in narrowing down the time period much.  This coin does have a 'look' that is suggestive of the Ptolemaic type I described above (Svoronos 1160-1161) but I can't tell what it is from the obverse alone.  Maybe someone else will recognize it immediately.

IOW, imho we'll need to know what this coin depicts on the reverse to go further.

PtolemAE



coinheadz

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Re: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra? (updated photo!)
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 02:13:00 am »
Well I have been nursing this coin and it almost looks like it has gotten worse when compared to my original photo!

Since I still have no clue what the reverse is, I have shown the coin faced several different directions.
I have marked the side where a little lettering is visible to help.

Does this help at all? Please let me know if you have any further ideas!


I was browsing through the FORVM catalog and thought some of the Ptolemaics just really remind me of the coin I have, with the dotted edge, the thickness and general shape of the coin.
Especially these (but it is clearly not the same reverse):
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/zoompgsold.asp?param=11331q00.jpg&vpar=111&zpg=8992&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins/

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/zoompgsold.asp?param=16239q00.jpg&vpar=111&zpg=15107&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins/

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2009, 04:00:34 am »
Not only is the reverse mysterious, but I notice now that the typical Ptolemaic coin die-axis of 12h orientation that you showed in your illustrations appears to be inconsistent with the Ptolemaic type showing cornucopia(e) on the reverse (they appear upright on a 12h die axis orientation).

Still unsure what you've got.

PtolemAE


Offline Edessa

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Re: Ptolemaic? Cleopatra?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2009, 09:57:59 pm »
Could the reverse be Crown of Isis?

Eugene
Eugene

coinheadz

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CORDVBA?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2009, 03:30:32 pm »
You know what?

I think the lettering says "CORD___" possibly as in CORDVBA, "Corduba" Spain.

Maybe like this coin:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?param=34350q00.jpg&vpar=1155&zpg=39852&fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/

This did come in a "Spanish found" lot that had lots of other Spanish Romans I had never seen before.

What do you guys think?

 

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