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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Ancient Coin Forum (Moderator: goldenancients)  |  Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here  (Read 85895 times)
Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #175 on: February 21, 2011, 06:56:01 am »

Prepare to wince at this Tooling Hall Of Shame candidate.
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #176 on: February 28, 2011, 05:19:38 am »

Jimmy Durante and his well manicured lady friend:
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Tacitus
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« Reply #177 on: March 01, 2011, 03:58:31 pm »

I snorted coca cola through my nose while reading the Jimmy Durante....  to freakin funny.  True though, he does have the Schnozz's nose!
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Brian L
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« Reply #178 on: March 01, 2011, 04:10:07 pm »

 "Good night, Mrs. Calabash--wherever you are!"
   Ha,cha,cha,cha Grin
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #179 on: March 09, 2011, 05:27:15 am »

This week's entry.
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #180 on: March 15, 2011, 07:12:54 am »

The emperor Tooljan.
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ancientdave
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« Reply #181 on: March 15, 2011, 10:55:13 pm »

Is it just me? I don't want to believe it in this case.
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areich
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« Reply #182 on: March 16, 2011, 03:43:19 am »

The hair and the drapery showing through Concordias legs seem tooled, they don't look like that on any of the examples I compared with. The seller is known for some cases of repaired gold coins a while back, just FYI.
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ancientdave
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« Reply #183 on: March 16, 2011, 06:00:22 pm »

The hair and the drapery showing through Concordias legs seem tooled, they don't look like that on any of the examples I compared with. The seller is known for some cases of repaired gold coins a while back, just FYI.

This is exactly what I see as well. Dissapointing.
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Kained but Able
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« Reply #184 on: March 17, 2011, 06:33:14 am »

The seller is known for some cases of repaired gold coins a while back, just FYI.

This type of background information should be collected somewhere for buyers to reference. Just knowing whether someone sells outright fakes dioesn't seem to be enough, there are seemingly many other misdemeanours that sellers get away with
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #185 on: March 18, 2011, 11:35:56 am »

Yikes!
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Tacitus
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« Reply #186 on: March 19, 2011, 02:47:33 pm »

That hair would be bad in real life!
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #187 on: March 22, 2011, 05:30:31 am »

This hemilitron was listed as 'heavily tooled'.
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Tacitus
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« Reply #188 on: March 22, 2011, 08:08:41 pm »

When is a heavily tooled coin no longer worth anything?
Is there a line that someone can cross from tooling to creating?
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commodus
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« Reply #189 on: March 22, 2011, 09:13:56 pm »

Quote from: Tacitus on March 22, 2011, 08:08:41 pm
When is a heavily tooled coin no longer worth anything?
Is there a line that someone can cross from tooling to creating?

Yes, but as Justice Potter Stewart of the U.S. Supreme Court once said of pornography: "it is difficult to define, but I know it when I see it."
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Eric Brock (1966 - 2011)
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« Reply #190 on: March 24, 2011, 03:45:05 pm »

Exactly. If the coin's rare, I could live with a little tooling, as long as it wasn't too blatant. But you can't count up the area worked on and calculate it that way, any more than you can define pornography on the basis on the number of square inches of flesh on display.
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« Reply #191 on: March 24, 2011, 07:30:08 pm »

How about this one:

It seems the whole bottom half of this coin is tooled, and more.
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Lloyd Taylor
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« Reply #192 on: March 25, 2011, 04:45:05 am »

This is a very badly/dangerously tooled coin.  Bad in the sense of dangerous for numismatic study.  The tooling has created a mint control that does not exist in the emissions of the Baktrian Uncertain Mint C and if accepted blindly this would confuse, if not rewrite the history of Euthydemid mint operations in Baktria.

This shows that tooling has the potential to re-write our sense of history and is not simply an issue of aesthetics.  To their credit CNG has identified quite explicitly in the description the tooling problem and the monogram issue:


BAKTRIA, Greco-Baktrian Kingdom. Euthydemos I. Circa 225-200 BC. AR Tetradrachm (27mm, 16.14 g, 6h). Uncertain Mint C. Struck circa 215-210 BC. Diademed head right / Herakles seated left on rock, holding club set on rocks beside his knee; monogram to outer right. Kritt C2; Bopearachchi Série 4A; SNG ANS 122. Good VF, some porosity, smoothing and tooling, with the monogram being incorrectly re-engraved.

This one is now for sale on [REMOVED BY ADMIN] at twice the price without reference to the tooling and completely incorrect monogram that results from the tooling.... see the potential to re-write history and/or screw numismatic research through the incomplete disclosure and actions of less than scrupulous reputable dealers?

As I said originally This shows that tooling has the potential to re-write our sense of history and is not simply an issue of aesthetics.  

It saddens me that some dealers play to this sort of deception.
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« Reply #193 on: March 25, 2011, 05:40:56 am »

This is a very badly/dangerously tooled coin.  Bad in the sense of dangerous for numismatic study.  The tooling has created a mint control that does not exist in the emissions of the Baktrian Uncertain Mint C and if accepted blindly this would confuse, if not rewrite the history of Euthydemid mint operations in Baktria.

This shows that tooling has the potential to re-write our sense of history and is not simply an issue of aesthetics.  To their credit CNG has identified quite explicitly in the description the tooling problem and the monogram issue:


BAKTRIA, Greco-Baktrian Kingdom. Euthydemos I. Circa 225-200 BC. AR Tetradrachm (27mm, 16.14 g, 6h). Uncertain Mint C. Struck circa 215-210 BC. Diademed head right / Herakles seated left on rock, holding club set on rocks beside his knee; monogram to outer right. Kritt C2; Bopearachchi Série 4A; SNG ANS 122. Good VF, some porosity, smoothing and tooling, with the monogram being incorrectly re-engraved.

This one is now for sale on [REMOVED BY ADMIN] at twice the price without reference to the tooling and completely incorrect monogram that results from the tooling.... see the potential to re-write history and/or screw numismatic research through the incomplete disclosure and actions of less than scrupulous reputable dealers?

As I said originally This shows that tooling has the potential to re-write our sense of history and is not simply an issue of aesthetics.  

It saddens me that some dealers play to this sort of deception.

NOT exactly twice the price ,but almost. Taking into consideration the hammer price and buyers
premium its a circa 95 % mark up. Thats up to the seller .Not mentioning the tooling and other problems is another thing.
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Lloyd Taylor
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« Reply #194 on: March 25, 2011, 06:07:49 am »

Of course it would be worth a lot more if the PK monogram were genuine.... because as a unique specimen of such it would re-write numismatic history! So is the non-disclosure of the falsely tooled monogram an omission of ignorance, or of design? I'll let you be the judge, but I am pretty certain of which is the case.
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #195 on: March 30, 2011, 05:16:55 am »

Shave and a haircut - 2 bits!

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Lloyd Taylor
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« Reply #196 on: March 30, 2011, 09:21:34 pm »

Shave and a haircut - 2 bits!

 Grin .... at least this one has a bit of rough charm to it (at least in my opinion).... I have received far worse haircuts and beard trims over the years and only wish I looked as ruggedly good after them.
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cmcdon0923
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« Reply #197 on: March 30, 2011, 10:13:51 pm »

Reminds me somewhat of a hobo nickel portrait......
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #198 on: April 13, 2011, 12:21:25 pm »

Offered as "minimally tooled".
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Mark Z
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« Reply #199 on: April 13, 2011, 01:07:31 pm »

I've noted this seller in the past and I have the feeling that I do not want to buy from him.

mz
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