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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Fake Coin Reports, Notorious Fake Sellers, and Discussions (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here  (Read 112533 times)
tjaart
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« Reply #475 on: November 08, 2013, 04:38:23 am »

Just saw this horribly tooled tetradrachm on fleabay from the usual toolie dealer.
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ickster
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« Reply #476 on: November 08, 2013, 10:20:43 am »

That is a horrow show  Shocked
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Taras
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« Reply #477 on: December 02, 2013, 01:55:31 pm »

From the same German ebay store.
An amazing incuse alien-bull  Shocked
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paparoupa
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« Reply #478 on: December 24, 2013, 06:03:45 am »

Poor Tanit  Roll Eyes
This re-engraved monstrosity appears in a french platform shop. I don't plan to contact them, I give up....
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« Reply #479 on: December 29, 2013, 08:29:19 am »

From an online german auction. The hair is tooled. The provenance given (NAC 4/ 1401 1991) is erroneous.
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« Reply #480 on: December 29, 2013, 01:08:50 pm »

The last two...I just don't see the tooling. I suppose I would see it if it was side-by-side with another coin from the same dies, but it isn't jumping out at me. Maybe with the less obvious coins you can post untooled coins to compare?
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« Reply #481 on: December 29, 2013, 03:52:57 pm »

The last two...I just don't see the tooling. I suppose I would see it if it was side-by-side with another coin from the same dies, but it isn't jumping out at me. Maybe with the less obvious coins you can post untooled coins to compare?

Given the overall condition of the carthage stater and the chalkis drachm, there is no way high points such as the hair can have such detail. Especially for Tanit, I have never seen a Group V or Group VI with such hairlines.
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« Reply #482 on: December 30, 2013, 02:46:51 am »

I agree that the Carthage Stater is probably tooled, whereas from the picture I am undecided about the Chalkis coin. Its hairlines do look like what you would expect from tooling but then again, they also do not stand out as completely unnatural for this issue either.

Lars
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Leu Numismatik
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« Reply #483 on: December 30, 2013, 06:29:07 am »

I agree that the Carthage Stater is probably tooled, whereas from the picture I am undecided about the Chalkis coin. Its hairlines do look like what you would expect from tooling but then again, they also do not stand out as completely unnatural for this issue either.

Lars

Letting aside the possibility that the Chalkis drachm is tooled, I consider it unbelievable that this coin hammered 6 times its estimate, with an obviously erroneous NAC provenance. European auctions are getting insane, I wonder who and why is paying all these money to get non-exceptional coins that would be really cheap 10-15 years ago.
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« Reply #484 on: December 30, 2013, 06:42:03 am »

The apparently tooled Tanit appears to be debased gold (electrum?) and the comparison coin appears to be of good gold. That makes it difficult to compare them. Near 24k gold certainly would not hold up those finer details with any wear. I believe that the French dealer is quite accurate in attribution, grading, authentication and descriptions. Nobody is perfect but they generally impress me which is primarily why I am still not entirely convinced it is tooled.

The Chalkis comparison coin is flatly struck with slightly worn dies. That makes it difficult to compare them. The sharpness of the detail on the apparently tooled coin does seem impossible and probably is impossible, but I am still not entirely sure.
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Joseph Sermarini
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« Reply #485 on: December 30, 2013, 07:07:12 am »

The apparently tooled Tanit appears to be debased gold (electrum?) and the comparison coin appears to be of good gold. That makes it difficult to compare them. Near 24k gold certainly would not hold up those finer details with any wear. I believe that the French dealer is quite accurate in attribution, grading, authentication and descriptions. Nobody is perfect but they generally impress me which is primarily why I am still not entirely convinced it is tooled.

The Chalkis comparison coin is flatly struck with slightly worn dies. That makes it difficult to compare them. The sharpness of the detail on the apparently tooled coin does seem impossible and probably is impossible, but I am still not entirely sure.

Hmm, the photo is showing a deep yellow colour that is an effect of photography. Group VI is electrum with very low gold content 45-55% if I remember by heart. I attach a photo of the best example I have seen around, you can see that the hair of the french example has been re-engraved. The French dealer is quite good and I was surprised this slipped through their attention.
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« Reply #486 on: January 02, 2014, 11:56:38 pm »

Recently sold on ebay. I was admiring the beautiful patina on this dupondius but as I looked closer it appeared tooled to me. I have very little experience in this area, only what I have read and learned here on Forvm. Opinions appreciated.

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« Reply #487 on: January 03, 2014, 12:30:05 am »

Hi this is not a sestertius it is dupondius
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« Reply #488 on: January 03, 2014, 12:32:08 am »

I dont think the coin was tooled .I think in some point the patina wast striped .
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« Reply #489 on: January 03, 2014, 04:21:11 am »

I see cleaning scratches but no tooling.
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paparoupa
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« Reply #490 on: February 21, 2014, 12:07:26 pm »

Philistis' veil got some extra folds Shocked
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cmcdon0923
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« Reply #491 on: February 24, 2014, 11:43:31 pm »

Tooled?

My money says "yes"......
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« Reply #492 on: February 25, 2014, 03:32:41 pm »

From a German seller, not the usual one, but probably bought from the usual one or bought from the supplier to the usual one. I have no idea what coin type it is intended to be. The obverse looks vaguely like bronze asses of the 180-140 BC period. The reverse, well who knows. The prow is unlike any Roman coin, and the vague M above it could have been tooled from anything; the word ROMA is of course a complete modern fabrication about half the size of what it really should be like. The seller claims it is an as of Pompey. That, it certainly isn't. Currently listed on a supposedly reputable coin sales platform. He isn't shy about price or condition, 425 euros, VF. I'm pretty sure that when this was an ancient coin, sometime last year maybe, it was in Fair-Good condition and probably priced below 10 euros.
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Molinari
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« Reply #493 on: March 28, 2014, 10:52:17 am »

This "lightly tooled" coin hits close to home.  In this case, the (usual) seller would have been able to charge quite the premium because it is a very rare variety, possibly new, that shows an olive sprig below the man-faced bull.  Impossible to say just how rare because it has been altered so I can't be sure of anything.  But it may have been a new version of the Olive Sprig variety, this one with legend instead of bow on obverse.

Now, I won't touch it Sad

The worst part is, I bet it was a decent enough coin before the tooler got a hold of it!
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Ghengis Jon
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« Reply #494 on: April 23, 2014, 08:08:33 am »

Bleh.  "sehr schön" ?!?

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« Reply #495 on: April 29, 2014, 01:12:13 am »

Again, already in my Gallery, but worth seeing here as well. The hairdo was redone with an idea of the original, the reverse drapery is just horrible.
s.
Jyrki Muona
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Andrew McCabe
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« Reply #496 on: April 29, 2014, 02:00:49 am »

Could I ask a Moderator to please "stickie" this Badly Tooled Coins thread to the Ancient Coin Forum. The thread has been running continually for five years with some 500 responses and shows no signs of fading so I think its earned credit to be a stickie by now! Currently when I'm looking for the thread I have to search for it anew each time and a stickie would make it easy to find.
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Molinari
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« Reply #497 on: May 01, 2014, 10:41:15 am »

I'm glad this is now stickied, thanks for suggesting it, Andrew.

Here's one I saw today that made me sad, since it is truly rare.

I'm not sure if the obverse is tooled, but I am certain the face of the man-faced bull on the reverse is.

EDIT:  The seller obviously knows it is tooled but hasn't labeled it as such.  If he didn't think so, he'd be selling it for at least 10x the amount at which he has it listed!
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« Reply #498 on: June 12, 2014, 08:56:30 am »

Sold previously as "smoothed".  Surprisingly, the current seller does not have it described that way.  I wrote to them and recommended they list it as tooled, because it is.  Specifically, the face of the man-faced bull and the warrior's face on the reverse.

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Taras
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« Reply #499 on: June 13, 2014, 12:14:03 am »

Sold previously as "smoothed".  Surprisingly, the current seller does not have it described that way.  I wrote to them and recommended they list it as tooled, because it is.  Specifically, the face of the man-faced bull and the warrior's face on the reverse.



I agree, this coin is much problematic.
Bye

Nico
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Fake Coin Reports, Notorious Fake Sellers, and Discussions (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Badly Tooled Coins Here « previous next »
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