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Author Topic: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure  (Read 919 times)

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Tomasz P2

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Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« on: February 12, 2022, 09:24:52 am »
At the first glance appears to be fine, suspicious for me is the metal, which is a bit similar to greek silver coins, a bit softy, with darker patina.
Coin was bought on an auction, from serious big retailer, approved from the auction expert. The price was adequate to the condition. It was partially cleaned and looked like dug out of somewhere, with large stony depots covered black (the spot on Obv at 4 was a rost sopt stony patina depot), it took me 2 days to bring it to this condition without damage.

It was not reported as a fake, I looked through all fakes of this type.
Coin data:
weight: 3,41 g, dimensions 18,6 x 17,2 mm, perfect 180° allignment
Type RIC I 212 according to seller.

Thank you for advice.

Offline DzikiZdeb

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2022, 02:04:37 am »
I don't see any strong evidence that this is false. The coin was probably heavily cleaned.

Online Pekka K

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2022, 02:58:17 am »

There is a feature often found on plated coins visible on word CAESAR.

Thinning plating is showing some copper oh the high points on letters.

Pekka K

Tomasz P2

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2022, 05:16:43 am »
The coin was heavily cleaned. Once before I got it, brought to the end by myself. The first cleaning was either gentle nor accurate. I am not sure about plating, as the staining on original surface was black, there was also a desert like layer in deeper holes. But thank you for te advice. I will check it with a mass spectrometry by my friends work.

Tomasz P2

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2022, 05:39:44 am »
Actually, as you have mentioned the plating, I have noticed a cut filled wit stone in the middle of the obverse side, by the "x". I suppose the ancient pre owner might have had the same thoughts on this coin :). I'll have a deeper look into it.

Tomasz P2

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2022, 05:42:25 am »
...I mente reverse side.

Tomasz P2

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2022, 05:59:01 am »
So, after digging a bit deeper into the cut subject... with a soft metal needle, I found nothing but silver metal first.

Online Pekka K

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2022, 06:12:20 am »

Take a look on reverse on these details:

Offline SC

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    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2022, 05:58:40 pm »
De-lamination can also occur in a coin that is all silver (or at least all silver alloy) but has been surface enriched.  That could be what is occurring if everything revealed in such spots is silver instead of copper alloy.

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Tomasz P2

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2022, 03:08:32 pm »
I will try to check it in some way. The Archimedes methode won't  be good for such a small object, I think i could try to make e probe opening in one of those deep defects with a 0.1 mm steel needle and use a reagent to detect copper. I could also use a selective metal detector. Are there any non invasive methods to distinguish plated from non plated coins?

Offline SC

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2022, 08:29:31 am »
With breaks in the surface structure this size you should be able to do it by eye.

A truly plated coin (a subaerate) will have bronze or pure copper as the core and you will be able to see this.  It won't look like silver. 

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(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Tomasz P2

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2022, 10:00:29 am »
There is no trace of copper anywhere.

Offline SC

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Re: Augustus "grandsons" denarius unsure
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2022, 05:37:28 pm »
I think this is just a regular issue that has undergone some delimitation.

My only example of this coin type is actually a subaerate with a copper-alloy core that now has only about half of its silver plating left.

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(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

 

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