Hungarian denars, can these be attributed?

[Vergilius]

Hello,

Is it possible to attribute these two Hungarian denars, with Madonna and Child? This is not my area of collecting coins, so I haven´t been able to attribute them with any certainty.

In advance, thanks for any help!

[Manzikert]

Hi

The left hand one is of Rudolph II (1567-1612) and the right hand one is of Ferdinand I (1558-1564). Both were struck at the Kremnitz mint.

Best wishes

Alan

[Howard Cole]

Hi Alan,

How do you tell the mints on these coins?  I can read the ruler's name with no problem.

Howard

[Manzikert]

Hi Howard

The K-B at the sides of the Virgin is the mintmark of Kremnitz. I'm not sure what other mints might have been active, but every one I've seen with a mark is from Kremnitz.

Best wishes

Alan

[Stkp]

Actually, only the K on the left side of the Madonna is the mark of Kremnitz.  The mark on the right side indicates the moneyer.  I don't know who that would be with respect to either of these coins.

[Manzikert]

Hi Stkp

Do you know of any other moneyers initials? As I posted earlier, every one of these I have seen were K-B, and K-B is quoted as the Kremnitz mintmark well up into the late 1700's.

This site for instance [LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN] has 10 examples from 1548-1619, all K-B, which would mean a career for this moneyer of over 70 years!

Best wishes

Alan

[Stkp]

I don't know any of the initials for the moneyers during the years of the Habsburg rulers.  It is entirely possible that in the time-period of the coins that you are observing there was only one moneyer whose initials were put on the coins.  These are more recent than the period that I collect and study.

[napki]

Actually, only the K on the left side of the Madonna is the mark of Kremnitz.  The mark on the right side indicates the moneyer.  I don't know who that would be with respect to either of these coins.

K-B stand for "Kormocz Banya" in Hungarian language, "Kormocz" is Kremnitz/Kremnica town name and "banya" mean "mine". Is no the moneyer initial. These mine very important in medieval time and Kremnica mint still strike coins in Slovakia today.

http://www.mint.sk/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremnica

[Stkp]

As Napki indicated the Hungarian name for Kremnitz is Körmöcbánya, which is now Kremnica, Slovakia. 

On the medieval emissions (which is all that I am knowledgeable about) the K indicates the mint and the other letter on the right side of the coin indicates the moneyer.  Several examples are as follows:  (a) on a denar of Sigismund of Luxembourg (1387-1437), Huszar 578, the mark K—L indicates Kremintz, by Leonardo Bardi or Petrus Lang, whereas K—R indicates Kremnitz, by Petrus Reichel, K—S indicates Kremnitz, by Johannes Siebenlinder, and K—W indicates Kremnitz, by Valentine Winche; (b) on a denar of the Interregnum (1445-1446), Huszar 614, K—I indicates Kremnitz, probably by Petrus Jung, whereas K—P indicates Kremnitz, by Konrad Polner; (c) on a denar of Matthias Corvinus (1458-1490), Huszar 704, K—A indicates Kremnitz, by Augistin Langsfelder, whereas K—S indicates Kremnitz, by Stephan Mikola; (d) on an obol of Louis II (1516-1526), K—A indicates Kremnitz, by Alexius Thurzo, K—G indicates Kremnitz, by Georgius Thurzo, and K—H indicates Kremnitz, by Hans Thurzo.  These marks are identified in Artur Pohl’s book, Muenzzeichen und Meisterzeichen auf Ungarischen Muenzen des Mittelalters 1300-1540. 

During the reign of Rudolph (1576-1608), Huszar indicates that the denars were struck with the following marks:  (a) no mark on Huszar 1054, 1055, 1056; (b) K—B on Huszar 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060; (c) H—S on Huszar 1061, 1062; (d) S—H on Huszar 1063; and (e) N—B on Huszar 1064, 1065 and 1066.

Huszar writes:  “The mintmark of the [Kremnitz] mint in the Middle Ages was mostly a K, starting in the 16th century K—B, then from the middle of the 18th century B, in the end, since 1867 KB.”

It appears that Napki is correct with respect to the time-period of the two coins in question, although in the earlier period it was more complicated then that.  Live and learn.