Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG  (Read 1462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« on: November 14, 2008, 04:50:01 am »
For those of you who like to make notes in your RIC about such things I thought I would bring the following coin to your attention.

Septimius Severus denarius
Obv:– IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG COS II, Laureate head right
Rev:– MONEI (sic) AVG, Moneta standing left, holding scales in right hand, cornucopiae in left
Minted in Emesa. A.D. 194 - 195
Reference:– BMCRE -. RIC -. RSC -. Variant of reverse spelling for MONET which would be RIC 411a.

RIC, RSC and BMCRE mention a MONE AVG coin in their notes but I cannot find mention of MONEI. I do not think that the I is the result of a clogged T as there simply isn't the room for the cross bars and must go down as yet another error from this mint from which they seem quite plentiful.

Regards,
Martin

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 06:33:55 am »
MONEI is new to me, too.  For the record, here is my MONE:


As a side note, I found interest in your coin from the obverse.  One of my first Septimius denarii purchased when I had a half dozen or so shared your obverse die.  I always liked that portrait with the overhanging brow (yes, I collect by style among other things much before condition).  I never noted another coin with the die for sale or I would have bought it.  That does not mean it is rare and my not having seen something means somewhere less than nothing but I was happy to see the coin.  My 'normal' MONET which I trust you will agree matches the obverse die:

Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 06:54:04 am »
Doug,
Many thanks for sharing those two. I have never seen the MONE before and I don't have any obverse die matches to this die in my collection either. I haven't seen the MONE obverse die before either I will have to check through my files.
Regards,
Martin

Offline mdelvalle

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Mi nombre es Mario
    • My collection on the web
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 10:47:21 am »
Hola Martin, Excuse my ignorance but this coins should be considered an variant or an engraver's error?.
Gracias
Mario

Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 11:00:55 am »
Hi Mario,
From what I have seen in the references covering this series, such engraver errors would be given a new entry in RIC / RSC / BMCRE if they had been noted by the authors when the books were published. Coins that have not been substantiated are covered in the notes etc. As such this coin would have likely been included just before RIC 411 and this I called it a variant of RIC 411a to allow someone to determine where to place such a note in RIC if they so desired.

This could all be a figment of my imagination however and I could be completely wrong.
Regards,
Martin

Offline mdelvalle

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Mi nombre es Mario
    • My collection on the web
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 11:08:41 am »
Muchas gracias Martin, has been very kind to answer me.
Saludos
Mario

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2008, 07:55:00 am »
There is a fair case to be made that every die cut as an individual (i.e. before mechanical duplication) could be given a separate catalog entry in a 'complete' work on the series.  There is a need for any author to adopt a philosophy of numismatic cataloging and decide where to draw the line on separate entries.  If we recognize, for example, Fortuna Redux as a type do we list as 'standard' Fortvn Reduc and add a footnote covering the dozens of variations (Rdevc, Reredvc etc.) or do we list each version with a whole number?  Do we acknowledge the fact that some dies split words in different places - some are extremely varied?    Coin catalogs are attempts to force an unnatural order on a subject not created with this in mind.  Anything less than a complete list of dies (or states of dies when there was change in states) involves a compromise but anything approaching complete makes a shelf breaker of a book.  I predict the answer soon will be a move to e-books with expandable levels that can be ignored or worshiped at the whim of the user.  I'd prefer catalog numbers with decimal points or alphanumeric suffix sections even if the work is a standard binding format.   

Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2015, 02:30:51 pm »
Several years on and I stumbled across another MONEI AVG forgetting I had an example and bought it only to find out when I got back to my records that it is a double die match to another example in my collection.

Martin

Offline suarez

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Praetorian
  • *****
  • Posts: 51
Re: Septimius Severus, MONEI AVG
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 01:56:17 am »
Another sold on ebay in 2008 (not either of these two). Published in my "Complete Coinage of S. Severus".

ps. Why is your Sep avatar colored black? I'm guessing a visual pun? The guy was most definitely white.

Ras

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity