The beginnings of coinage in China and Lydia

[loron]

Dear members,

has there been anything said yet about the astonishing fact that the custom of minting coins occured at the same time in 2 different cultural areas?
As well in China as in Minor Asia the first "coins" were minted around 600.
What I'm looking for as literature, especially from a comparatistic viewpoint.

Cheers:

Florian

[Sap]

In China, the first "primitive coins" in the sense of metallic objects made specifically for use as money, date back to 1200 BC or so, whereas the transition from pure barter to coinage in Greece appears to have been much swifter; a sudden inspiration, rather than a gradual evolution. But coins, small, roundish pieces of precious metal stamped with an official symbol of authority and/or purity, seem to have been made in Greece before China.

So the answer to the question, "who invented coins first", depends partly on your definition of "coin" and partly on which archaeological reports you've been reading; the latest research often pushes back the earliest known date of coinage, and there is quite a bit of cultural pride and prestige at stake, in being able to say "we invented coins first".

[loron]

Dear Sap,

thank you for the quick response. Following the latest research we are not so far away from 600 for the Lydian Electrum... And, indeed, there have been forerunners for coins. Remember the so-called ox-hide-bars from Mycean times. So rughly, the development has startling parallels beginning 1200 B.C.! Don't get me wrong, I'm not so much interested in the question "who was first" but more in finding out about possible interdependences between the two cultures. Not only in philosophy there are surprising parallels between the Chinese and the "European" development starting around 500 B.C. Remember, the HAN-dynasty runs for many centuries parallel to the Roman realm and has significant similarities. By no means I'm aiming at contacts via silk-road. I could also imagine very well, that at certain points of cultural development the invention of coinage is coercible.
My aim for starting this thread was to gain an entry into literature comparing these developments. Does anybody have a hint?

[Molinari]

As for a book that draws a specific correlation between the two, I know none.  But Richard Seaford's Money and the early Greek Mind: Homer, Tragedy, and Philosophy (Cambridge University Press, 2004) offers some great insights into the origins of Greek coinage in relation to eastern civilizations (at least in some respect).  It might be a good starting place, and it is at least worth looking into the book's bibliography.

Best,

Molinari

[loron]

Dear Molinari,

thank you VERY much for hinting at this nice book! It does not treat Chinese coinage but nevertheless offers an approach to the topic which is new to me.

Regards:

Florian

[leseullunique]

As Far I know, I didn't see any book like that but if you are able to read and understant french, you can buy on www.kadath.be the revue kadath nr 102 about the chinese origins.

For the developpement, I can say than there is many differences between the 2 cultures, for example

- In Erlitou, last capital of Xia dynasti, wher find some bronze artifact like an axe or a cup, Erlitou was the capital of Xia dynasty between 2100 and 1800 BC, nothing really special in date but if we can study the axe, we can see than some precious stones are inlay in the axe!
- Iron where casted for first time in China in 700 BC  and during 13th century in Europe.
- In Qin Shi Huang di tomb where find a sword with chrome-plated blade but in the rest of the world, chrome where only discovered in 1797 AD ant the chrome plated system in 1937!

I have some others important differencies between the 2 cultures and most of those are technological differencies.

the Eastern pupolations were realy more developed than european, they did just lost all this technological culture during the economical crisis of 3rd-6th century