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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Coin Photography, Conservation and Storage  |  Topic: Scammy Photographer? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Poll
Question: Does it look like a minipulated Photo Just for a Sale?
Yes   -12 (46.2%)
No   -14 (53.8%)
Total Voters: 23

Author Topic: Scammy Photographer?  (Read 4343 times)
JamesW
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« on: March 15, 2008, 05:26:27 pm »

Hello guys ive just recieved this coin in the mail today From a EBAY seller. And i have to say im very dissapointed with the harsh reality of the coin.
I didnt mind the few little spots of Red Bumps on it but to my suprise this coin is in way much worst shape than the actual sellers photo depicts. There is so much shiney metal on Tiberas chin i wonder if sparks flew off of it when they took the grinder to it.
The picture im showing of it is the way it was advertised for sale.
Ive taken a Honest picture of it that depicts the true color of the coin and the shiney ness of the reality. Some people will do anything to sell a coin. I suppose the lighting, and mabey even some color editing had alot to do with it. I didnt do anything to alter the harsh reality in my picture. Its really hard to make a decision on a coins condition when its a photo you have to go by. Just beware any coin that has these colors for sale. I feel like the photos the seller made were done to decieve someone into buying it.
So Make a Vote. Smiley

These are the photos from the seller.
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JamesW
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2008, 05:27:26 pm »

The hard reality

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slokind
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2008, 06:39:24 pm »

Many of us have known that seller and the consistent images for about a decade now.  I have been told that the pictures are taken in full sunlight on a real floor with a less than expensive camera.  We all know what they all look like, and we all have a pretty good idea of how to interpret the ones posted on line.  So far as that goes, the little Septimius / Basket of Philippopolis that I just posted above in Provincial came from the same seller.
Now my photo also looks different from theirs, and yours looks different.  In my opinion, you need more sunlight (or its equivalent), but I do not think your photo shows a bad coin, only a coin photographed in deadening light.
Pat L.
Was it expensive?  If I hadn't had a bunch of bids out, I might have bid on it myself, only I don't really know about its mint.

Here's their photo of my Septimius
And below it my photo of the same obverse, same coin
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fordicus
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2008, 06:40:21 pm »

I was going to post that the seller was known for manipulating images, but slokind appears to have beaten me to the punch  Wink
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JamesW
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2008, 07:12:47 pm »

Well i payed 25 dollars for my camera at wal-mart when it was on sale and i think my picture isnt bad because the photo ive taken in the lesser light allows the viewer to see the bronze that is shining out of the crippled, scraped up (probably by a straightpin) patina.

I do think the coin was expensive, But the reason why i had bid on it in the first place was because i havent seen many of these for sale and i was tired of getting constantine crap from uncleaned lots.

I wanted something different that had been cleaned but not ruined.

My supplies for takeing the picture are,
25$ samsung digital camera, 5x magnified loop set on the end of the lense, and a 50 watt spiral light from wal-mart. I make the coin stand up and lean it against the black felt baggy i use for a background. I dont have fancy stuff either but my picture looks alot more honest of the damaged patina. I set the camera on the table and slightly lean it so that its paralell with the coin, i then move the camera till the coin is not blurry, and then i snap the picture.

very simple steps for a picture that looks so much more like the military green patina color that the coin really is but i also reveal the bronze that has been uncovered without being to shiney in the light for it to be noticeable. Also in that picture the seller took you cant tell the coin is waxed. It  is though.

Ill keep this coin and im leaving that feedback so other newbs like me will have a warning that the coin isnt even remotely that blue pataina color.Thats cause mine is military green. Besides that im buyer, I dont care about my feedback. I pay as soon as i win. I wont be purchasing anything else from that individual with those bogus color pictures there hosting.
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Steve Minnoch
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2008, 07:39:20 pm »

I can understand the annoyance at a coin not being as in nice a state as you were hoping.  But on the other hand it is still a desirable coin, with an interesting depiction of Demeter. I hope you can still take pleasure in it.

Steve
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slokind
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2008, 11:05:40 pm »

Considering that Webster's Collegiate calls scam "a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation <an insurance scam>, I wonder how to characterize your title, which of course you meant to describe how you felt when you saw that the coin looked different from the photo.  The verb 'to scam' is even more explicit.
I understand your feelings, but as the author of the thread could you consider changing the Subject/Title to something like, 'Misleading Photograph'?  Wouldn't you feel better about that?
Isn't 'scammy' somewhat misleading, too?
I know that sounds like a schoolteacher talking to an angry 7th-grader; please forgive me.
Pat L.
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JamesW
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2008, 11:50:17 pm »

Considering that Webster's Collegiate calls scam "a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation <an insurance scam>, I wonder how to characterize your title, which of course you meant to describe how you felt when you saw that the coin looked different from the photo.  The verb 'to scam' is even more explicit.
I understand your feelings, but as the author of the thread could you consider changing the Subject/Title to something like, 'Misleading Photograph'?  Wouldn't you feel better about that?
Isn't 'scammy' somewhat misleading, too?
I know that sounds like a schoolteacher talking to an angry 7th-grader; please forgive me.
Pat L.

Well, When i look at the feedback i left that person, they called me liar and said the coin was the exact color of the picture.

Seems to me like she/he got alot of pictures of coins that are not going to be blue when you get them. I mean really, I dont think it was an accident. I feel like its a deliberate attempt by the photographer of there items, to display them at a color/lighting level that is indeed deceptive as an attempt to sell off there accident cherry picks that they ruined. I learned a lesson from buying from this person. I dont let the same person run me over twice. I learn my lesson the first time.

I know that a quality picture of a coin is possible with inexpensive equipment and less than desirable conditions. My photo is not the best photo of the coin, But instead of disguiseing the real color,  I actually show off the brass thats shining through, yet i admit, i can probably make it even more clear if i really wanted to. I just snapped a random shot of it with my inexpensive epuipment. It took all of 4 minutes to shoot it, send it to my comp, resize it, then host it.

So when i say scammy i mean it.
When i look at my photo that shot of it i get the real sense of what condition the coin is in. When i look at there photo, (after recieving the item) I realize that it was no accident.

Its an optical illusion. An optical illusion (also called a visual illusion) is characterized by visually perceived images that are deceptive or misleading. The information gathered by the eye is processed by the brain to give a percept that does not tally with a physical measurement of the stimulus source. There are two main types of illusion - physiological illusions that are the effects on the eyes and brain of excessive stimulation of a specific type - brightness, tilt, color, movement, and cognitive illusions where the eye and brain make unconscious inferences.  (Wikipedia)

Its all part of makeing the sale.
Boo hoo. O well right. Well im keeping the coin, because i do like it, Im just highly upset about the condition that it really is in.
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2008, 06:43:49 am »

I have to change the colors on some photos to get them to look more like the coin.  Color is tricky because it depends on the monitor too.  I bought a calibration tool for my monitor (it has an electronic eye and you hang it over the screen and run the program to calibrate).  Since it is calibrated, my monitor is supposed to be right.  Still, what you see will be different.
 
I should also add that when I take 100 photos of inexpensive coins in one day (or something like that), the color you will see will be what comes from the camera.  (There are only so many hours in a day.)   

I am not sure if this seller changes the color or they just come out that way and he doesn't bother to change the color.   I think the latter is much more likely.
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2008, 09:10:11 am »

Here is the seller's picture with the colour corrected, and yours reduced to a similar size. I would say that the seller's picture shows the rough fabric of the coin better than yours does. Of course, the colour of the seller's picture is wrong, but you get to 'interpret' these things over time.
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Peter, London

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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2008, 09:42:03 am »

Peter,
How did you color correct that? I tried it myself using the darkest (hoping it should be black) part of the pic as a neutral reference, but that didn't work.

Ben
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2008, 09:57:19 am »

Peter,
How did you color correct that? I tried it myself using the darkest (hoping it should be black) part of the pic as a neutral reference, but that didn't work.

Ben


Quite simple. I used Paint Shop Pro 'Automatic colour balance'. You simple move a slider between 'warmer' and 'cooler' until the picture looks about right.
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Peter, London

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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2008, 01:14:04 pm »

Looks like a case of the colour balance being shifted to make the coin look 'green' and desirably patinated. I think most of us have encountered it. I've even come across green silver coins.
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Robert Brenchley

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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2008, 01:16:47 pm »

Considering my experience with this seller I wouldn't be surprised if it was on purpose.
I bought a lot from them once and theirs was the most dishonest photography of a coin lot
I've ever seen. And I have seen some bad ones.

Andreas
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 02:05:31 pm »

I had considered bidding on a few of that seller's coins but in looking at picture after picture I noticed that every one of the coins up for sale has the same pretty blue patina.  Didn't matter what type of coin or where it was from, same blue patina.

I think the colors are clearly manipulated.  I also think that there's a bit of photoshopping going on with shadings on legends to make them "pop" more on some of the nicer coins for sale.

I still check the seller's coins out overy once in a while, and I have bid on a few of them, but honestly, I look at the coin, come up with my price and discount it by about 20% just because I'm leery of what I'm gonna get if I buy. 

Having said that I'm sorry for your exdperience but it does kind of confirm what I have suspected.  It's a shame too, because I'm guessing some of the coins are pretty nice.  The seller usually has some very interesting looking larger romans
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Dino
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2008, 02:27:18 pm »

When you shrink Pat's Septimius down so that the seller's pic and his pic are the same size, you can see that the seller isn't necessarily making the pics look better by manipulating the colors/using harsh lighting. 

If you look at the legend and the details on the portrait they look much sharper in Pat's pic (red areas).  In addition I think the faults look worse in the seller's pic.  The blob on the left hand side looks bad and it almost looks as if there's a crack all the way across the coin (yellow areas). 

Pat's pic looks much better IMO and really shows how nice the coin is.

I've just started trying to take pics of my coins and it's not easy.

Having said that, if I was selling them on eBay, I think I'd work on getting the pics right.

Who knows.
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Dino
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2008, 02:31:49 pm »

I think this is a neat coin and would consider bidding on it, but the shadows look to be digitally manipulated to make things stand out more.  I dunno, may it is really harsh light and a bad camera.
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slokind
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« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2008, 12:47:23 pm »

Even before identifying the mint, I hasten to post a really true image of the Hadrian / Athena coin last discussed here.  This image is drastically reduced but, apart from combining and cropping, without processing, and it really does match the coin.  As Dino said above in Reply #15 on the Septimius coin, their image so far from enhancing the coin does not show how really nice it is.  Yes, the patina is sound as well as that nice color.
Their images often do not do justice to the coin.
Pat L.
As for ID, three convergent opinions so far, but no die match.  P.L.
No one, even Curtis, has found a possibility other than Bithynium-Claudiopolis, and there is a good comparandum there which I haven't seen myself yet, but still (a) no other specimen, let alone with a more complete ehtnic legend and (b) no die match for either the obv. or the rev.  At Curtis' suggestion, I have sent images to M. Amandry for the Hadrian RPC (and he might, of course, recognize the coin).  Curtis and others have generously checked all the SNG et al. to which I lack access.  P.L.
5:30 p.m. Just received by the generosity of Roland M. (Odophil), via Lars Rutten (PScipio), this scan of the coin first spotted by Pete (Akropolis) and agreed to be most relevant by those with von Aulock (which I really MUST obtain for myself: this is not the first time...).
My coin is larger, Æ25 and 9.74gr. and its bust is from in front, while von Aulock 296 is bust from behind.
See now (Apr. 9): http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=44926.0
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bruce61813
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2008, 10:09:48 pm »

the areas you seem to see as 'to see the bronze that is shining out of the crippled, scraped up (probably by a straightpin) patina' appears to be damage from very old Bronze disease.  The 'red' areas are copper that has combined with lime to form a stable hard material. If you looked under it you would find the same rough, jagged copper that you see on the chin and around the nose.

Further note, blue is a very rare form of copper carbonate, called azurite, 99% of coins will be the green malachite form. Also, never trust pictures you see, there are too many variables involved - including the camera, the light source [your pictures are biased to the red-orange portion of the spectrum] , your monitor calibration, their monitor calibration and about 100 other variables.

The circled areas have the appearance of old bronze disease, and the reverse side may still have some on the left side.

Bruce
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2008, 07:31:02 am »

The only thing I will add is that as I collect more coins and struggle to photograph them, I've seen how hard it can be to get the right color, etc. 

If I was trying to keep up with an inventory of coins to sell on eBay I'd have to pick one method that gave ok results and go with it.

Based on the Septimius, Pat's experience with Diana's coins, and my own fumbling with photography (you can take a look at my first couple of attempts to get a decent photo of uncleaneds for the uncleaned competition or the shadows on the bottom portion of almost every coin in my coin gallery), I'd be very very reluctant at this point to say there's intentional misprepresentation going on.  And in the end, anything one buys off of eBay is a risk in one way or another.  There's no substitute for holding a coin in hand and then deciding to purchase it.  A close second is sticking with sellers you have a history with and have provided good products and service.
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2008, 04:08:06 am »

I expressed several times my opinion that this  dealer pics are deliberately doctored to hide problems.
Recall that many of his coins were accused to be tooled.   I agree with areich that it is
the "most dishonest photography".
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