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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Identification Help (Moderators: Varangian, Arados)  |  Topic: help on Postumus dupondius or as 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Frans Diederik
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« on: February 25, 2008, 01:30:01 pm »

Today I received the strangest Postumus coin I've ever seen: a mere 21 mms in diameter (of sorts) and yet weighing 11.6 grams and it is 5(!!) millimeters thick!
The only part of the text which can be read is:...POSTVMVS P.F. , which is not very helpful, I'm afraid.
The reverse shows a female figure walking left,  holding a flower (?) and a staff (or caduceus?) The text on the left must be short as the one on the right is too:probably PAX AVG as I see an 'X'
Who can shed light on this coin?


Frans
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 02:19:23 pm »

A very interesting find! Bronzes of this period are quite rare (at least, you don't see them often) and denominations below the sestertius even more so, and yours looks to be in very nice condition. From the smallish size + radiate crown I'd assume this one is a dupondius, the "double sestertii" were also radiate but much bigger.

Wildwinds lists a Postumus dupondius with Pax on the reverse (link, it looks a bit different to yours but it could just be a different die.
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Arminius
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 02:43:40 pm »

Due to galloping inflation all these bronze radiates should be double sesterti.

This one may be from same dies:

CNG 94, Lot: 180.
 
POSTUMUS. 259-268 AD.
Æ Dupondius (23mm, 13.78 gm). Mint city II (Cologne). Struck 266-267 AD.
[ ]A LA POSTVMV, radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust right / Pax advancing left, holding wreath and sceptre.
RIC V 218 var. (obverse legend); cf. Gricourt & Holland "Le trésor de romaines de Méricout-l'Abbé," TM XIII 271; cf. Bastien, Postume 279a; Cohen 223 var. (same).
Crude VF, red and brown patina.

Estimate $100.Sold for 66.
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Frans Diederik
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 03:10:33 pm »

Wow Arminius, I think you are correct in assuming the obverse dies are identical! Of the reverse I am not so sure; in the coin you found there are some stripes in the lower part of the dress which are absent on my example. The wreath definitely is not a wreath; it looks more like a torch. I made this pictures from hand and will make better ones soon.
Thanks very much for this link as it helps a lot. The coin was found in France btw.

Frans
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Robert_Brenchley
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 05:44:48 pm »

The reverse is surely PAX. Have a look at this thread: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=29363.0 ; it gives some indication of the weight variations between coins produced (cast in this case) from the same original dies. I sit on the fence and call them all large bronzes.
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 12:47:58 am »

Hi,

Arminius is correct with double sestertius.  It can be difficult to track as certain types such as the Laetitia "Galley" reverse continued to be made throughout the official and (probably) unofficial production period on flans of all sizes but the reverses that mirror the later antoninianus reverses, such as running Pax tend to be on reduced flans suggesting degradation in size through time, mirroring approximately the decline in the silver content of the antoniniani.

Regards,

Mauseus
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Frans Diederik
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 02:28:51 am »

I made new pics and fiddled a bit with Arminius' example and put the obverses together for comparison.
I wonder what you think of the 'wreath' Pax is holding?

Frans
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Arminius
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 05:03:10 am »

It´s not my coin or description.

I think that the description i copied for you may not be correct.
When i enlarge the 94180.jpg i can´t see a wreath at all. The object Pax is holding on that coin is not visible to me.

We can only assume that the person describing the reverse had more information.

So it might be the same reverse type as your coin.
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Frans Diederik
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2008, 06:08:20 am »

It was of course no attack on you or your judgment - on the contrary!! - I quite agree with you that, whoever made the description must have had information about Pax' attributes on this type of coin. (Gricourt or Bastien)
Pax and a wreath DO occur, be it rarely. I found an example on a Carus as(!?) and in Carausius reign there are numerous variations on Pax as it was one of his most proliferous types.
I think I may assume that this coin is rather rare.


Frans
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2008, 11:04:38 am »

Four examples on Coinarchives:

http://tinyurl.com/yp7tx9

The bottom two are about the same weight as yours.  It appears that an olive branch was originally intended on these issues.  Note that the sceptre leans to the right on these but leans to the left on yours.

The top two are die matches and overstruck on large flans, probably from the third cent.  Interesting.

Eugene
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