Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. All Items Purchased From Forum Ancient Coins Are Guaranteed Authentic For Eternity!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Internet challenged? We Are Happy To Take Your Order Over The Phone 252-646-1958 Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?  (Read 1008 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Katharosteriphos

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 291
  • What's the officer, problem?
Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« on: January 27, 2009, 06:27:49 pm »
Hi @ all,

Just wanted to share with you this recent acquisition of mine:
A fourree gold solidus from Honorius.
holed at 4 o'clock, ca. 21,5mm diameter
Obv: DN HONORIVS PF AVG - Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right.
Rev: VICTORI-A AVGGG - Honorius standing right, holding standard and Victory on globe, spurning captive, N or M in left field, D in right field
Exe: COMOB or CONOB

questions over questions :)  :
What would be the catalogue attribution of the real coin? When and where was it struck?
What do you think about it? Has someone here seen something like this before?
God is dead.
   -Nietzsche

Nietzsche is dead.
   -God

Offline Hydatius

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1061
  • I love this forum!
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 09:35:39 am »
It would be RIC X 1206. The mintmark is MD and the exergue is COMOB. It must have been struck sometime during the reign of Honorius (393-423), or perhaps slightly later, but since it's an ancient counterfeit there's no way of knowing anything specific about it at all. . Like to collect these when they don't cost too much and I've never seen a Western fourrée this late. A wonderful specimen.

Richard
Non tam praeclarum est scire Latine quam turpe nescire.

Offline moonmoth

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2454
    • What I Like About Ancient Coins
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 11:58:56 am »
You might also be interested in this battered and worn fourree tremissis of Honorius.  It seems to be copying RIC X 1340, which would be:

Mint and Date: Ravenna, 422 CE (for the original)
Size and Weight: 16mm, 1.30g
Obverse: Pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right.
D N HONORI-VS P F AVG
Reverse: Victory advancing right, holding wreath in right hand behind, and cross on globe in left hand in front.
VICTORIA AVGVSTORVM
Field Marks: Obscured by wear, but should be R in left field, V in right field.
Exergue: COMOB

All the legends, and the exergue, can be made out with care, though some of the lettering looks odd.
"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."

Offline Hydatius

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1061
  • I love this forum!
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 01:06:28 pm »
That IS interesting!  Thanks.

Richard
Non tam praeclarum est scire Latine quam turpe nescire.

Offline Rugser

  • Deceased Member
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2608
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 05:20:04 pm »
This is a other  Honorius  fourrèe... ;D ;D

Offline Katharosteriphos

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 291
  • What's the officer, problem?
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 05:38:29 pm »
Thanks for all the answers! Very interesting to see other fourrees of Honorius!

@Hydatius:
Thank you for the catalogue attribution! So the original is Mediolanum mint, struck 395-402 AD. Is this correct?
How many of these gold fourrées do you have in your collection? Are there any theories by whom they were struck?
By the way, I also bought this one because it was cheap: I got it for 1 Euro on a flea market!  :)

@moonmoth:
As you have probably noticed, this fourrée is another part of my holed coin collection  :angel:  ;)

@rugser:
Your Honorius looks very much like mine! Is it also an RIC 1206?

best regards!!
-kat
God is dead.
   -Nietzsche

Nietzsche is dead.
   -God

Offline Rugser

  • Deceased Member
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2608
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 06:32:02 pm »
Hi Kat
It is also as the your.
M in field l. and D in field r.
RIC IX ; Mediolanum 35 (c) ; S.
Cohen 44

Best regards
ser

Offline Katharosteriphos

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 291
  • What's the officer, problem?
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 06:40:16 pm »
Hi Rugser!

Thanks for your fast reply... but I think I can't follow your ID completely  :-\

So, is it RIC IX 35 (c); S. or RIC X 1206 ?

And what do you mean with (c) and S. ? I'm not sure if I understand you correctly

Please enlighten me!  ;)

-kat
God is dead.
   -Nietzsche

Nietzsche is dead.
   -God

Offline Rugser

  • Deceased Member
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2608
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 07:22:47 pm »
Hi Kat !

RIC IX in Mediolanum mint have listed for VICTORI-A AVGGG :
#35(a)  =  Theodosius I ; R (rare)
#35(b)  =  Arcadius ; S (scarce)
#35(C)  =  Honorius ; S (scarce)

Sorry. I not speak English

ser

Offline Katharosteriphos

  • Consul
  • ***
  • Posts: 291
  • What's the officer, problem?
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 09:54:41 am »
Hi Rugser,

Thank you, now I understand! :)

What is the difference between RIC 1206 and RIC 35c ?

Do you think, our two coins are die matches ?

Best Regards!

-kat
God is dead.
   -Nietzsche

Nietzsche is dead.
   -God

Offline Hydatius

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1061
  • I love this forum!
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 05:22:42 pm »
@Hydatius:
Thank you for the catalogue attribution! So the original is Mediolanum mint, struck 395-402 AD. Is this correct?
How many of these gold fourrées do you have in your collection? Are there any theories by whom they were struck?
By the way, I also bought this one because it was cheap: I got it for 1 Euro on a flea market!

Yes, that's correct. I have only three: Constantius x 2 and Julian (I'm always looking for more!). They were struck by forgers, just like today, who wanted money for nothing, though I can't believe they ever fooled anyone in hand. I suspect they must have been added to bulk lots of coins where their appearance wouldn't catch anyone's eye. That's one of the main reasons why Gratian bumped up the quality of the coins and mandated that taxes had to be paid by weight in gold, not just in the correct number of solidi: i.e. if you owed 72 solidi in taxes, you used to be able to pay 72 solidi. After the new law (when the OB was added to the exergue of coins) you had to pay one pound of gold (= 72 solidi) and if 72 solidi didn't make up one pound, you had to add the extra.  A great coin for a Euro!  (What's the smiley for envy?)

What is the difference between RIC 1206 and RIC 35c ?

Do you think, our two coins are die matches ?

There is no difference; they are the same. The minting of that coin extended from the end of RIC IX to the beginning of RIC X so it has two numbers.

And yes, I think your coins are died matches, which suggests that they came from the same source/hoard. Where was your flea market?

Rugser, where did yours come from?

Richard
Non tam praeclarum est scire Latine quam turpe nescire.

Offline Rugser

  • Deceased Member
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2608
Re: Fourrée Solidus from Honorius? Opinions?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 07:49:00 pm »
Hi Richard
I think they not are from the same die; my engraver has  more style ; he has worked to Rome;) :laugh:

Best regards
ser

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity