Author Topic: Once in a lifetime (Read 7467 times)

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **on:** December 18, 2007, 07:38:31 pm »

I think this is a coin you can find once in a lifetime, and only if you are very lucky!
Rare... rare is a little word to describe this coin...

d=18 mm
w =2/3 gr

i think it's this one:
[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

even if mine is a little smaller

i can see FI and M letters, it seems very very close (the same!) to the coin in coinarchives.
What do you think?

i'm very HAPPY and proud!!!!

Wonderful coin

byzantiumcoins · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:07:54 am »

Congratulations !
Your coin is definitely the same one that sold in the Lanz auction.
For another one see:

[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Regards
Byzantiumcoins

joma-tk · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:38:47 am »

Here is my copy as well

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2007, 03:47:28 am »

Dear yoma,
how did you classify it? SB 1931 var? or not in Sear? someone tells it's Philippopoulis mint... what do you think?

Emanuele

yafet_rasnal · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2007, 05:24:24 am »

I think that the first question should be ....is this coin byzantine? Or an imitation (of sb1931) done by someone else? For example arabs in Syria or any crusader ruler.
The idea of lanz of a legend

A M

seems wrong because all of the coins have

M

that recalls more an imitative issue.
Also the legend on the left of the ruler seems a blundered one.

Orthodoxcoins · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2007, 05:55:02 am »

That's true, Lorenco,
it's a definitely imitative issue.

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:25:29 am »

so it's not a good coin

Orthodoxcoins · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:31:43 am »

It's a very interesting and rare coin! I'll be happy to have it in my collection!

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:34:20 am »

ah ok! i tought it was a false when you said imitation. Imitation by whom? is it the same that the Lanz one?

Orthodoxcoins · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:40:08 am »

Imitation by whom? "That is the question!" I believe it's a provincial mint.

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:46:59 am »

Philippopoulis?

Obryzum · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:54:00 am »

Quote from: Emanuele G on December 19, 2007, 06:46:59 am

Philippopoulis?

That could be one explanation for why there is a "Phi" where there is usually a "C".

petzlaff · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2007, 07:49:41 am »

"imitation" doesn't mean "false" at all.

I don't know the correct English word, but in German language those coins were titled "Beischlag".

One thing is confusing: The

on all shown coins are looking twin-egg alike while the flattenings in the design are different except of two qouted specimens.

Got a bad feeling out of my stomach. Nevertheless here are my congratulations on that coin. Are there any authentical pix of those Plovdiv-Tetartera available. As all I'm able to research with the sources available to me it seems very likely that Plovdiv Tets are something like a myth. There were two dates for Plovdiv issues (imperial visits to Philippopolis): 1093/94 and 1114/15 corresponding with the Billon Aspron Trachys DOC 31a and DOC 31b. Both Trachys show a Labarum (with or without cross inside the Labarum's head). What could be the reason to show a sceptre cruciger on a tet with the same series?

cordially
Stefan

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2007, 08:05:32 am »

Dear petzlaff,
i don't understand the problem you are talking about. Can you explain it to me?
thanks

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2007, 08:28:02 am »

why the bad feeling?

silvernut · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2007, 08:46:28 am »

Aren't the first two coins (Emanuele's and Byzantium) from the same dies? It looks so to me...

Regards,
Ignasi

petzlaff · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2007, 08:55:55 am »

Quote from: Emanuele G on December 19, 2007, 08:05:32 am

Dear petzlaff,
i don't understand the problem you are talking about. Can you explain it to me?
thanks

It's just a bad feeling as I said.

It's very unusual, that the main design shows different traces of wearing in comparision with the distinctive markings like letters (

for example ) nearby. Especially for a very rare (somewhat a commemorative issue - personally I don't believe in the existence of commemorative Tets from Plovdiv) I really don't know how to interprete my feeling - but it grumbles inside me myself.

cordially
Stefan

yafet_rasnal · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2007, 09:36:43 am »

I don't think that the

stands for Philippopolis. In the original tetarteron the legend that

stands for "protect". So, as said, this is probably "just" an imitative issue with the first line legend C

mirrored in

, the second line with the A

joined letters transformed in a M and the final

kept as it is. It recalls a bit the anonymous follis with mirrored legend found in middle east.

petzlaff · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2007, 10:28:34 am »

plausible interpretation - I think Yafet is right.

Emanuele Giulianelli · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2007, 10:35:44 am »

and by whom do you can suppose the imitation could be, dear Yafet?

byzantiumcoins · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2007, 10:37:20 am »

@Orthodoxcoins

I am not exactly sure what you want to tell us ?

First you write:

Quote from: Orthodoxcoins on December 19, 2007, 05:55:02 am

That's true, Lorenco,
it's a definitely imitative issue.

Then you write:

Quote from: Orthodoxcoins on December 19, 2007, 06:40:08 am

Imitation by whom? "That is the question!" I believe it's a provincial mint.

How for heaven«s sake can the same coin be a ( barbaric, Islamic or whatever ) imitative issue
and a product of a provincial mint at the same time ?
( A provincial mint is an imperial mint somewhere in the empire, not in the capital. )

This is what both Lanz and byzantiumcoins were writing
( and btw. Spinks in London, NumCirc Feb. 2004, p.24, lot BY0165 )

Byzantiumcoins

yafet_rasnal · « **Reply #21 on:** December 19, 2007, 10:52:52 am »

Joma, can you post a larger obverse image please?
Byzantiumcoins ... can you report what's in that N.C. article?

joma-tk · « **Reply #22 on:** December 19, 2007, 11:37:17 am »

It should be clear that

has nothing to do with Phillipoupolis.
The meaning of the C

is
Stavre fylatte Alexio Despoti or:
Cross protect our Lord Alexios
So when instead of C

we have

C it is the same thing in retrograde writting.

As far as a better picture which I was asked, I do not have my camera available and the picture I submitted was the one that was used from the seller
of this coin. I bought it on December 2006 from e-bay for $9.99 (I had placed a much higher price) and I was the only bidder

What looks like silvering should not fool you. It is just the flash of the camera.

The letters on the left of the emperor are OC which is the ending of ALEXI OC
Moreover what you see as an M it is actually two Greek letters:

(for Alexios) again missinterpreted
during the making of the dies

Trub · « **Reply #23 on:** December 19, 2007, 12:43:15 pm »

Here you can find a "Beischlag". On page two follow several pieces.
Maybe you can read a little bit the pages with the help of Google translation.
http://www.numismatikforum.de/ftopic16400.html
Greeting
Trub

byzantiumcoins · « **Reply #24 on:** December 19, 2007, 01:41:45 pm »

Quote from: Yafet Rasnal on December 19, 2007, 10:52:52 am

Byzantiumcoins ... can you report what's in that N.C. article?

no article, just another of these coins described and offered by Spinks as a "barbarous" post reform Alexius tetarteron.

byzantiumcoins

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Author Topic: Once in a lifetime (Read 7467 times)

Emanuele Giulianelli

Emanuele Giulianelli

yafet_rasnal

Emanuele Giulianelli

Emanuele Giulianelli

Emanuele Giulianelli

petzlaff

Emanuele Giulianelli

Emanuele Giulianelli

petzlaff

yafet_rasnal

petzlaff

Emanuele Giulianelli

yafet_rasnal