Symbol of the globe?

[pierre_p77]

As all know the globe is very comon on roman coins, for example on the Antoniniani of the 3:rd century. Somewhere I red that it sybolizes the emperors right to world domination or something like that. Is that correct? Or is there more behind the globe symbol?

When we see Jupiter giving a globe to the emperor as on many Antoniniani, does that mean something like the gods are giving the right to rule the world to the emperor?

regards
Pierre

[Reid Goldsborough]

The best material I've come across regarding this is an article titled "Symbolism of the Sphere" by Michael R. Molnar in the June 1998 Celator. In short, it's not a globe representing the Earch that's depicted, a common falacy, but a sphere, or orb, symbolizing the Cosmos.

This is clear on well-engraved, struck, and preserved coins such as the one Pat just shared with us. There you see not land or oceans depicted but astronomical/astrological markings. Most of these orbs are smooth from die wear or circulation wear, thus the common misunderstanding that this is a globe representing the Earth.

It's believed, as you said, that orbs used on Roman coins symbolized a god, most commonly Sol or Jupiter, conferring power to an emperor, handing him the Cosmos. There are other depictions too, including but not limited to Italia sitting on top of the orb, which symbolized her presiding over the cosmic sphere, or everything.

Just took a look again at this article, and it describes the X on Pat's coin, mine, and others as an equinoctial cross, representing the spring and autumnal equinoxes, symbolizing the belief in the cosmic cycles of birth, death, and rebirth, rooted in Greek philosophy, and discussed by Plato, Pliny, Aratus, and Manilius.

Another common marking on these orbs, on other coins, is a grid system originated by Greek astronomers to locate stars and planets.

[Joe Sermarini]

The Romans knew they were inside that sphere of stars.  They apparently didn't have much in the way of maps, so indicating land and oceans can't be expected.  I suspect that those astronomical/astrological markings were placed on a orb representing the earth as the center of the heavens.  It would perhaps be the only way they would know how to represent the earth. 

Aurelian claims RESTITVTOR ORBIS.  Perhaps he is claiming to have restored the cosmic cycles or perhaps he is referring to things on the ground?  Perhaps he is referring to both and they saw them as one and the same? 

Holding a an orb must indictate control of the world, even if the world is only part of the heavens represented.  Or even if it is not.  An emperor receiving or holding a globe must surely indicate control of the world even if it is only through control of the cosmos.  (I suppose this control was maintained through proper exercise of worship, good leadership or correct behavior?)

[Robert_Brenchley]

W KOSMOS means something ordered; not just the physical order but also the political. In John's Gospel, for instance, it means something like 'this sinful world order'. So the reference could be to the emperor as restorer of the Roman order, with the implication that this applied to the whole physical world.

[moonmoth]

Reid says "Most of these orbs are smooth from die wear or circulation wear" - but orbs on some coins were engraved as smooth.  Here are obverses from three "hut" coins showing a smooth orb, a quartered orb, and a quartered orb with dots in each quadrant.  (Presumably, each octant of a full globe was intended.)  The quartered version without the dots may be an error - it is the only such coin I have out of my 185 hut coins.  The smooth and dotted varieties are both common.

This suggests that whether smooth or marked, the orbs had the same symbolic meaning.  But it should also be borne in mind that there are many local variations of these particular coins, and the local engravers may not always have adhered to a prescribed standard.

[Reid Goldsborough]

The Romans knew they were inside that sphere of stars.  They apparently didn't have much in the way of maps, so indicating land and oceans can't be expected.  I suspect that those astronomical/astrological markings were placed on a orb representing the earth as the center of the heavens.  It would perhaps be the only way they would know how to represent the earth. 

I agree. The ancients, most of them anyway, regarded the Earth as the center of the universe (on the other hand, some believed in a heliocentric rather than geocentric universe). But the ancients did have maps. They weren't necessarily accurate, with the concept for instance of the "River Ocean" that supposedly surrounded the known world, but the maps did differentiate between land masses and water masses. If Earth was meant to be portrayed by the orbs on these coins, I believe the orbs would have displayed the same kinds of land masses and water masses on the maps, or a simplification or approximation of them, rather than celestial markings. But even those who didn't believe the Earth was at the center of the universe understood that it was within the universe, so I agree with you that the orb in symbolizing the Cosmos or universe included within its meaning the Earth as well.

[Reid Goldsborough]

Reid says "Most of these orbs are smooth from die wear or circulation wear" - but orbs on some coins were engraved as smooth.  Here are obverses from three "hut" coins showing a smooth orb, a quartered orb, and a quartered orb with dots in each quadrant.  (Presumably, each octant of a full globe was intended.)  The quartered version without the dots may be an error - it is the only such coin I have out of my 185 hut coins.  The smooth and dotted varieties are both common.

This suggests that whether smooth or marked, the orbs had the same symbolic meaning.  But it should also be borne in mind that there are many local variations of these particular coins, and the local engravers may not always have adhered to a prescribed standard.

The orbs on the coin in the middle and to the right are well-engraved enough to show the same equinoctial cross on Pat's coin. I think the coin on the left doesn't display this because of die wear.

[moonmoth]

Reid -

With all due respect to your experience and knowledge, I am not convinced that markings on the globe could have disappeared so completely when there are so many details left of the fingers and the armour on the arm.   For that to happen, the  globe would have to wear faster than the rest of the die.

Here are some worn examples which still have the markings, though this is probably wear from circulation rather than on the die; and a few more smooth examples.

[Jochen]

As confirmation that the globe is a symbol for the 'kosmos' and not the earth I have here a coin where the globe is decorated additonally with stars in the field.

The 2nd coin is noticeable because of its 5 horizontal lines on the globe which Sol has in his hand.

Best regards

[Joe Sermarini]

The lines and stars certainly certainly depict the kosmos.  For me that is not the question.  I wonder, why is the kosmos an orb?  I wonder if the kosmos is depicted surrounding the surface of the earth.  Did the ancients explain why they depicted the kosmos as an orb?   

[slokind]

My interest in the zodiacal band is just on that account, why an orb can stand for the kosmos.  One kind of astronomy you can do bare-eyed is watching the succession of the 'signs' relative to such (practically) fixed points as the North Star, and the ancients had done a lot of it.  Classical texts seem to suggest that the stars shine through apertures in the blackness of the night sky.  I remember being told that it was like having a colander overhead, one that rotated predictably.  And Sol and Luna followed arcs.  The natural extrapolation would be that the kosmos was spherical.  That the earth iself was spherical must have seemed perfectly consistent and natural, too.  The Constellations, by the way, were not essentially for relating the sky to familiar stories but for recognition of the region of the sky where they can be seen in the course of the year, to get one's bearings.
Pat L.

[David Atherton]

I'm not quite sure how this example of a globe/orb on this Vespasian denarius fits in with the kosmos explanation. I've never seen another orb with 'curving latitudinal lines' until Jochen's coin was posted in this thread. An engraver's whim perhaps?

I purchased this coin because it is a bit unusual.

[moonmoth]

There is a good deal of variation in the depiction of these globes, even when in the same context.  Three varieties of globes held by Constans are shown above.  Here are some globes on altars from BEATA TRANQVILLITAS coins.  The top left and middle are Crispus; the bottom left and right are Constantine.  The bottom left is mine; the rest are from Coin Archives.  Here are, among others, a dotless version, and a double-double curved equator that starts to resemble a tennis ball.

[Jochen]

As the rotation axis of the Earth is not perpendicular to its orbital plane, the equatorial plane is not parallel to the ecliptic plane, but makes an angle of about 23°26' which is known as the obliquity of the ecliptic. Because the cross on the orbs is often not rectangular but shows this angle too I first thought this could be the depiction of the ecliptic's obliquity too.But now I think this suggestion is not correct! Looking at the nice examples of Moonmoth's orbs I think the decoraton of the orbs was free to the creativity of the die-cutters.

Here is another example of the BEATA TRANQVILLITAS type with a globe covered with a ladder-like horizontal band.

Best regards