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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numism  |  Reading For the Advanced Collector  |  Topic: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian  (Read 74000 times)
okidoki
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« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2015, 03:53:51 pm »

Hello Curtis,

thank you, its the same die indeed.
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« Reply #76 on: October 21, 2015, 12:57:39 pm »

also eastern mint?

Hadrian Denarius Roma 128-32 AD Aequitas standing
Reference.
RIC 339. C 382. BMC 1035.

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right.

Rev. COS III
Aequitas standing l. holding scales and cornucopiae.

3.41 gr
18.5 mm.

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-119310
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curtislclay
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« Reply #77 on: October 21, 2015, 01:09:03 pm »

The style is near Roman, but I suspect all Aequitas denarii of Hadrian are Eastern.

See my explanation on p. 3 above of this thread.
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Curtis Clay
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« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2015, 01:35:08 pm »

thank you very much.


all the best,

Eric
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« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2015, 02:15:08 pm »

Reference.
RIC-; BMCR - ;  Strack-; RSC-

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS PP
Laureate bust right.

Rev. COS III
Concordia seated left holding patera in right hand, left elbow resting on statue of Spes.

3.20 gr
17.3 mm
6 h

also i see like here seated on normal chair, mostly Concordia on Throne.


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« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2015, 04:40:03 pm »

Reference.
Strack *74, pl. XX; cf. RIC 245

Obv. HADRIANVS-AVG COS III P P
Bare head right

Rev. FORTV_NA AVG
Fortuna standing facing, head left, patera in right hand, cornucopiae in left

2.67 gr
18 mm


http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=104535.new#new
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« Reply #81 on: November 25, 2015, 02:28:12 pm »

Eric,

Nice acquisition!

Same obv. die, I think, as the coin shown above by Maridunum on 3 Dec. 2012, with rev. III - COS, Fortuna standing.

So your obv. too must have just HADRIANVS - AVGVSTVS, no P P, and a fold of cloak on the emperor's front shoulder and maybe also behind his neck.

Curtis,

#73
It think this coin is same dies, and maybe same coin?
As *12 strack plate XX

Must note that Strack saw this coin in W= Wien state mÜnzkabinett, so they would not sell there coins?

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-123808

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curtislclay
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« Reply #82 on: November 25, 2015, 04:21:08 pm »

Eric,

Museums do sometimes sell or trade away duplicates. Or occasionally museum coins can be stolen and so find their way onto the public market!

There is an innocent explanation, however, which could well apply to your coin. Strack might have mixed up his casts. He visited the Vienna collection in 1927 and 1930; but in 1930 he also visited a very rich private collection of Roman coins in Vienna, the Trau collection, which was dispersed five years later, in 1935, in a famous auction.

Now, Strack was apparently trying to collect plaster casts of every Eastern denarius of Hadrian that he came across. If he was making his own impressions and casts, he might have made impressions of the Eastern denarii in both the national collection and the Trau collection during that same Vienna trip in 1930. Your coin might be a Trau coin, but Strack got his batches mixed up and labeled his cast of your coin as coming from the national collection! Such a mix-up would of course be much less likely if Strack instead asked museums and collectors to make casts for him and send them to him by mail. I don't know which of these methods Strack used.

If your coin indeed belonged to Trau, it is not illustrated or individually described in the sale catalogue, so presumably formed part of lots 1174-6 in the sale: 50, 50, and 52 denarii of Hadrian respectively, in "good or very good" condition, which probably equates to "fine or very fine" today.
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« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2015, 10:41:50 am »

Hello Curtis,

Thank you, the mixing up seems real i have no pedigree on my coin, we will never know i guess.
Strack is an interesting book, and German happens to be my 2e language, so lots of reading here






 
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« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2015, 02:35:02 pm »

After checking this coin seeing no P P i must be something else.
it looks like Strack *14 but different dies.

Reference.
Strack *14; RIC cf 333; RSC 347L similar

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS
bare bust right with drapery

Rev. COS III
Roma, helmeted, draped, seated left on cuirass and round shield, holding Victory in right hand and cornucopiae in left

2.8 gr
18 mm
12h

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« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2015, 01:36:21 pm »

An unknown variant obverse to Strack *31

Reference.
Strack *31; cf RIC 173 (no PP)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Bare head right.

Rev. COS III
Genius sacrificing left from patera over flaming altar, holding cornucopiae.

2.9 gr
18 mm

also specimen without altar, shown by Martin (maridvnvm) on Reply #52

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« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2016, 12:04:24 pm »

Reference.
Strack *36; cf RIC 331;

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Head of Hadrian, laureate, right.

Rev. COS III
Minerva, helmeted, draped, advancing right, levelling javelin and holding shield

3.27 gr
19 mm

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« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2016, 11:36:43 am »

After browsing the entire thread here I'm feeling all meshugge in my head and really don't know anymore whether this recently acquired Hadrian is actually Eastern. I thought it was, and the lettering of the COS III still looks Eastern to me, although the portrait is less different from the ones of Rome than many of those shown here.
If it should indeed not be Eastern, it's a normal RIC 161. Technical data: 18.5 mm, 3.28 g, die axis 6 o'clock (do these denarii all have a 6 o'clock die axis? My six specimens all do)

Rupert
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« Reply #88 on: January 18, 2016, 10:07:31 am »

Rupert,

I would say Rome, judging mainly from style of portrait and lettering on obverse. These types definitely do occur at Rome, as you observed: BMC 361-366, one illustrated pl. 53.16.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I think the Eastern series started out with engravers from Rome. But all of the Rome-style Eastern denarii that I have seen so far have obv. legend HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P. None without that P P, as on your coin.

As to die axis, inverted seems to be predominant on Eastern denarii, but upright too occurs rarely.

Your five all inverted; and the same applies to the 20 in BMC. I have 63 Eastern denarii in my new collection: 61 inverted, 2 upright.

The inverted axis is predominant on Roman coins too, but upright occurs alongside inverted on some groups at Rome, namely those with legend form HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS / COS III P P and the Travel series with obv. legend HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P, i.e. c. 129-132 AD on my chronology. See Strack, pp. 21-23.

Thanks for bringing up the die axis question, which I hadn't paid attention to before!
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« Reply #89 on: January 18, 2016, 10:26:38 am »

Thanks for your feedback Curtis! Well if it's from Rome, I overpaid a little on it, but it's still a nice denarius. Then correct my figure of Eastern denarii with inverted die axis to five, please.

Rupert
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« Reply #90 on: January 18, 2016, 10:52:57 am »

Done!

I also added five denarii to my total: purchases of the 1990s that I was forgetting about.
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« Reply #91 on: January 18, 2016, 11:58:49 am »

interesting information, i'll check my eastern mint and add the missing information
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« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2016, 11:25:16 am »

A Strack variant on the legend
*61 var (same obverse die as Strack *74)
2.73 gr
18 mm
8h.
More details
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-126853
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« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2016, 07:59:59 am »

thinking about these Aegyptos coins is it real to think they were minted in Egypt Alexandria?
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« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2016, 12:39:55 pm »

The rev. type is merely copied from Hadrian's travel series at Rome, so has no relevance to the mint of the coin, which is presumed to be in Asia Minor.
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« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2016, 08:18:48 am »

i think i have here a variant on Strack *22 different obverse. (HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS) also *22 has no victory

Obv. IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG
Laureate head right.

Rev. P M TR P COS III
Roma, helmeted, seated left on cuirass, Victory in right hand, spear in left.

2.96 gr
18 mm
7h
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Eric
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« Reply #96 on: February 10, 2016, 08:29:32 am »

Interesting, but not from Hadrian's normal Eastern series.

I don't know what it is.
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« Reply #97 on: February 10, 2016, 08:40:03 am »

to me it looks a bit like the style from Cilicia Tarsus
http://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/advanced/?v=&i=&l_type=l_type_city&c_id-1=tarsus&p=&r=&c_type=c_type_person&person_id-1=Hadrian&reign=&yf=&yt=&mn=&pa=&a=&od_b=or&od=&oi=&rd_b=or&rd=&ri=&m=&d=&d2=&w=&w2=&s=&stype=advanced&search=Search

Soon coin in hand, i hope i can tell if it's a fouree it looks like copper is coming through
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« Reply #98 on: March 03, 2016, 01:08:58 pm »

Hadrian, Denarius, Eastern Mint 128-32 AD Aequitas standing

Reference.
Strack *59 ; cf RIC 381; RSC 1121

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Head of Hadrian, laureate, right

Rev. P M TR P COS III
Aequitas, draped, standing left, holding scales in right hand and cornucopiae in left

2.5 gr
19 mm
6h
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Eric
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« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2016, 01:10:37 pm »

Quote from: okidoki on February 10, 2016, 08:40:03 am
its a Fouree
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