Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Please look at the RECENT ADDITIONS and PRICE REDUCTIONS at the top and bottom of the page. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES! Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Point your mouse to a coin in RECENT ADDITIONS or PRICE REDUCTIONS on this page to see the the price. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES!


FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numism  |  Reading For the Advanced Collector  |  Topic: Isis 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2  All Go Down Print
Author Topic: Isis  (Read 22066 times)
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« on: May 08, 2007, 08:53:13 pm »

Though Antoninus Pius has plenty of Isis reverses of all sorts at Alexandria, his aren't numerous elsewhere that I know of.  Today I received in the mail one that I have coveted for a long time.  Not only is it Isis but it is signed by Zeno, so dates from early in Antoninus's reign and must count among the earliest coins with Imperial portraits at Nicopolis, but in checking up on it I learned that, like the Zeno Apollo Sauroktonos for Antoninus Pius, this type also exists in an unsigned edition.  My interest in such parallel issues also extends to the term in office of Auspex, early in Septimius's reign.
Anyhow, the Isis coin is, in my opinion, as pretty as a coin can be, and here she is (followed by the CoinArchives image of the unsigned parallel one).
• 08 05 07 Æ24  11,07g  axis 6:30h  Nicopolis ad Istrum.  Issued by ZenoAntoninus Pius, bareheaded, head to r.  AVT AI ADRIA    ANTÔNEINOS.  Rev., Isis stg., to l. in traditional crown, holding sistrum (with clapper rendered) and ritual situlaStill unlisted, so far as I know.  NEIKOPOL PROS    IST ÊGE ZÊNÔNOS.  One WITHOUT THE SIGNATURE OF ZENO sold by Lanz in 2001 (Aukt.  102, no. 597).  That one, too, was thought to be unlisted in 2001.
Possibly in Varbanov (English) I.
Pat L.
Logged
David Atherton
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3877


The meaning of life can be found in a coin.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2007, 09:20:39 pm »

Nice obverse die match.

A beautiful coin with a rich, dark patina. Artistically engraved as well.
Logged

Cheers, David

My Gallery: http://tinyurl.com/2cgd8r
moonmoth
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2522



WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2007, 11:46:53 pm »

A very nice coin.  The signature is fascinating.  As usual, the detailed description throws up a number of questions and answers ..

I looked up "situla" .. So, the item which so many attributions of Isis Faria call a "basket" is actually more of a bucket. "Basket" does not imply the ability to carry water; "situla" does. 

What does "clapper rendered" mean?  The sistrum I see on coins is a sort of loop with bells or rattlers attached, with a handle at the base. 

Bill
Logged

"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."
gallienus1
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1062

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst


« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2007, 05:18:10 am »

Love this one. The most noble of emperors has been given the reverence he deserves and the reverse is both charming and graceful at the same time. (Let us in on your secret Pat, where do you FIND these coins?)

Regards,
Steve
Logged
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2007, 02:28:26 pm »

A sistrum is an Egyptian noisemaker, which worked like a clapper used to scare crows from the cornfield or like the Hallowe'en clappers we used to get as children.  I guess that, like bells which scared the diabolic influences away from churches, they are basically sonic purifiers or perhaps beckoners.  But that's what I don't know, though I do know that they have a hieroglypph of their own.  They are very old and very Egyptian

K.S.=Kathleen Schlesinger, an historical musicologist, who contributed a number of articles to the EB 11th of 1910.  She was editor of Portfolio of Musical Archaeology and author of The Instruments of the Orchestra.

P.S. The Lanz coin aslo is Varbanov I (English) no. 2124, and I got mine from the dealer friend from whom I bought my very first ancient coin.  And I may have been wrong that the thing that shows at the top is its clapper (real ones exist, not just pictures of them).   P.L.
In RPC Ant on line, search Antoninus Pius Isis and go to p. 24/24, where you will find the only comparanda to the N ad I coin, from Argos and Corinth, the latter BCD Corinth no. 676.  But most interesting of all is one from an unknown mint:
http://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/images/coins/6000%20M/6800/6878s1.large.jpg

These three refer, I should think, to a standard but not Alexandrian statuary type, a Greek one, that was the prototype also for the Nicopolis coins.  They are the only ones there (in RPC on line) that are comparable to the Nicopolis Isis.  I'd better submit mine, I think.
There's  an Alexandria with a sistrum reverse in RPC, and here's the Isis from an unknown mint.
Logged
moonmoth
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2522



WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2007, 03:43:35 pm »

Thanks, Pat.  That definition of a sistrum is excellent, full of detail.  I can now visualise it against the actual coins it appears in.  I see that what I was taking for bells or rattlers must be the ends of the rods, or maybe the leaf-shaped stops or cotter pins that stop the loose rods from falling out. 

(I took "clapper" to mean the thing that makes bells ring.  But you meant a noisemaker in a more generic sense.  Webster (on line) says: a : the tongue of a bell b : a mechanical device that makes noise especially by the banging of one part against another.  I would have used the word "rattle" for this sort of noisemaker - for crows, you'd use something like this one: http://www.fuzzy-duck.co.uk/images/footballrattle.gif . Semantics - always needs watching!)

This is my Isis Faria, on a rather more mundane coin of Claudius II.  Egg-shaped sistrum, with rods; and she is carrying her ceremonial bucket.
Logged

"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2007, 05:01:16 pm »

That's our statuary type, all right, on the Claudius II antoninianus.  I found it also in Sear III, no. 11370, illustrated.  I was having trouble reading what looked like N for an S and, for some odd reason, didn't think of using Isis as a Salus type.  I don't have RIC so late as this.  And Sear (or RIC) doesn't know that 'basket' is not an option for Isis, but, on the other hand, perhaps neither did Claudius II's mint.  But it does raise a question: Isis Pharia, in my experience (and I just went through 24 web pages of Alexandria for Ant Pius, where I saw dozens of Isis Pharia as also she does appear on Rome silver, I think), as the Isis of ships benefiting by the presence of the famous Pharos, she has that big sail.  I can see no excuse for calling this stg. Isis, with her most traditonal attributes, the Isis crown, the sistrum, and the situla (and doubtless the Isis knot of her dress), 'Pharia'.   I looked in Sear just to see whether he said 'Pharia': he doesn't.
I had rather suspected that this standard temple statue Isis might be the type seen in Rome; I haven't even checked BMCRE yet for Antonine sestertii.  In that case, I wouldn't be surprised if such a statue type stood in temples, for instance, at Delos or anywhere in Greece where they had a Hellenistic Serapeion--most urban places, actually.  It looks like a Greek statue of, say, the 3cBC.
What it is not, is plain from RPC: anywhere but Alexandria and anything but Pharia.  I'll go to LIMC tomorrow.
BTW: I thought of 'rattle' as onomatopoea, the noise made by pebbles or beans or gravel inside a container, a gourd or one made of clay (like the little Geometric bird rattle from the Athens Kerameikos cemetery, from an infant grave).  A 'clapper', I thought, makes a sharp, high, impact noise, as, yes, a bell's or (as you found) other metal on metal.  I didn't know the construction of the crow-dispelling one, which I probably ran across reading Hardy or some other Victorian, but, though vernacularly it may be a rattle, it...well, it doesn't rattle; it goes clackity-snappity, like a stick on a picket fence or a stiff card inserted to make noise as the spokes of a bicycle wheel passes over it.  The Hallowe'en toys have a metal pellet on the end of a bit of spring steel, which, when shaken, makes quite a racket by rapidly hitting a tin panel.  The crow-dispeller makes a racket, but not a rattle, too.  Enough!  Pat
I think, having only the Shorter at home, I'd better check the big OED tomorrow, too.  A corner of my brain thrives on these things for desserts or appetizers.
Logged
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2007, 05:15:21 pm »

(a) I knew I'd seen one in Rome.  Her Vase in her l. hand is wholly restored.  Actually, all extremities, probably, are restored.
Rome, Museo Capitolino. The Dying Gaul, copy of a bronze, part of a monument set up by Attalos I of Pergamon, probably by the 220s BC, commemorating his victory over invading Gauls in 235.  The torque and singed hair, as well as his very un-Greek facial structure, were of great interest to the sculptor.  He sits on a Celtic (Gaulish) shield, with a short sword, and a great round Celtic trumpet curls around his feet.  To a Greek, or other Mediterranean person, his long torso (which looks perfectly ordinary to us) is as novel an ethnic trait as the way his hair (not least his mustache) grows.
The statue in the background is easily identified as Isis by the way her drapery is knotted in front (although her sistrum is doubtless modern).
(b) Here is a Trajanic funerary relief with the family of a priestess of Isis with a sistrum beside her.
Rome, MNR (Terme, cloister)  Funerary portraits
C RABIRIVS POST L  RABIRIA  VSIA PRIMA SAC
   HERMODORVS        DEMARIS
These people have, I think, later names; as usual some of the names are Greek (Hermodorus, Demaris).  The woman (center) is designated Prima Sac[erdos = First Priestess; her hairstyle and the sistrum beside her head suggest that she was a priestess of Isis (I think...).  Rabirius wears an himation (orator, educated).  Hermodorus has a patera beside his head, also suggesting priestly functions.
Pat L.
Logged
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2007, 06:13:13 pm »

How to learn:  One never really registers what one sees until one has had to correct onself on its account.  Here is a nearly lifesize statue of Isis in Alexandria, from Alexandria, holding the situla (bail handle) and with her r. hand missing but OK to hold a sistrum.  And J.M.C. Toynbee in the medallions book says that Isis and Serapis never made it into the official rota of festivals in Rome (to explain paucity of medallions with Isis).
Anyway, coins notwithstanding, Alexandria did have this kind of statue.  I did not, however, find it in Antonine BMCRE except in a note re a problematic one of Faustina II on p. 245, and I didn't find this kind at all in BMCRE V, Severan.
Pat L.
P.S. For more Claudius Gothicus specimens, a real sistrum in BM and a rather slender situla, and more inexplicable calling of a plain Isis an "Isis Faria" (with no source evidence such as mention in an ancient author of a shrine of Isis IN the Pharos, describing a statue like the ones in the Capitoline (grayscale photo of her, without the Dying Gaul in front, posted by Congius, provided, and even the museum to be deduced from my old color slide), see:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=19716.msg131421#msg131421
Logged
moonmoth
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2522



WWW
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2007, 11:08:35 pm »

Complete illumination will surely follow upon Pat looking into a subject!

I have misread The Dictionary of Ancient Coins.  Under "Isis Faria" (and not in the longer section on "Isis") it shows a drawing of the actual Isis Faria but also gives a quotation as follows:

Respecting the sistrum and the situla in the hands of Isis, Servius, as quoted by Eckhel, says, "Isis is the genius of Egypt, who by the movement of her sistrum, which she carries in her right hand, signifies the access and recess (or the rising and falling) of the Nile; and by the situla, or bucket, which she holds in her left hand, she shows the filling of all lacunae, that is all of the ditches and furrows into which the stagnant water of the Nile is received." See Pharia Isis.

Misleading to have this under "Isis Faria."  But an interesting quote.

That clip is available in Numiswiki.  You can also find there this clip:

ALEXANDRIA.  On the reverse of a silver Hadrian (engraved in Oiselius, TAB. xxxiv. p. 149), the type of a female standing clothed in a tunic [supposed to represent the genius of Egypt].  She holds in her right hand the sistrum, in connexion with the worship of Isis [the movement of that instrument signifying the rise of the Nile.]  In her left hand she holds a bucket or waterpot (situla) by which is indicated the flow of canals or watercourses.--Rasche.

Here's "Aegyptos" from Coin Archives:

http://imagedb.coinarchives.com/img/leu/093/image00026.jpg

Reclining, but with the same attributes: headdress, sistrum, situlum (looking like a basket this time) and this time with an ibis on a column nearby.  Obviously not from the same statue; perhaps a variation on the theme.


Moving on to rattles .. The OED gives two primary definitions of "rattle". The first is "a case of some hard material containing small bodies which rattle when the object is shaken."  The second is "an instrument having a vibrating tongue fixed in a frame, which slips over the teeth of a ratchet-wheel with a loud noise when the object is whirled round. (Formerly used by watchmen and others to give an alarm.)"  Somewhat different types of noisemaker, but both with the same name.
Logged

"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 02:44:30 am »

That is great!  I don't want the last word, but that is a great Hadrian aureus.  And Eckhel's Servius can't help being somewhat Hadrianic both in his style (granted it's in translation) and in his content.  Eckhel, like Winckelmann, was an 18th c. man, different in many ways as they were.   Here, the important thing to notice is that Eckhel died before the decipherment of hieroglyphics, so that he was one of the last great scholars to have Egypt wholly from Greco-Roman evidence.  In 1799, the Rosetta stone was discovered, and that was the year of Eckhel's death.  Eckhel's Egypt was virtually Hadrian's Egypt.  So though he was cognizant of most of the magistrates' names on coins, his Egypt was pre-decipherment (rather as Arthur Evans' Crete was pre-decipherment) and pre-archaeological (very pre-Flinders Petrie and Wallis Budge).
Thank you!  Pat L.
Logged
moonmoth
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2522



WWW
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 10:23:57 am »

Thanks for the context. You can look stuff up all you want, and learn a lot, but you don't really know what it means until you know everything else as well ..

This is your thread and I don't want to deny you the last word, but as it is about Isis, I would like to add this well-known and readily available coin of Julia Domna. RIC IV 577.  Sear and RIC both say that this is Isis with the infant Horus at her breast; she has one foot on a prow, and a rudder rests on an altar behind her.  RIC mentions her peaked head-dress.  This is one of those Roman reverses which look like an attempt to write a message in code, and end up being rather complicated.

The Dictionary of Roman Coins (which is a joy to have a physical copy of)  only gives this as a "female figure," quoting Akerman.  Do you think it really is supposed to be Isis? 

The prow and the rudder look as though they belong to Annona.  The head-dress is not Isis' usual one.  The legend, the happiness of the age, occurs with images of children elsewhere.  The altar might just be an indication of piety.  With your knowledge of context and statuary, what do you think?

(p.s. That infant looks like an awkward handful!)
Logged

"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2007, 12:48:43 pm »

That is a LOVELY Julia on your denarius.  Oh, yes, I'm sure it's Isis and Horus/Harpokrates.  The Septimius family likes the whole Greco-Egyptian family.  I have not the slightest doubt that this is just a minimally exotic form of Venus Victrix with Eros at her feet (and cf. Jupiter with little 'baby' Emperor at his feet~Septimius and Caracalla), which is to say that the obstreperous infant is a crypto-Caracalla and (rather like some of the Ptolemaic queens before her, who, I guess, started this game) Isis is equated to Aphrodite, and Julia is fancied as the mother of the Divine Child of their choice: SAECULI FELICITAS, indeed.  As for the Annona-like prow, Rome did get grain from Egypt, didn't she?  Pat L.
EGYPTBerlin, StM.  Late Period: Dyn. XXVI (Saitic).  Blue faience statuette from Thebes of Isis nursing baby Horus.  c. 600 BCE.  H. 0.097m (that is, less than 5 inches).  The Greeks and then the Roman world found and adopted this cult and spread it everywhere.  Isis appears on regular Roman denarii just as Juno, Diana, and Venus do.
Logged
curtislclay
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10138



« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2007, 03:09:43 pm »

The traditional ID as Isis depends, I suppose, on the motif of nursing a child and on the association with a ship.  Isis is often shown nursing Horus, though usually, it would seem, in a seated pose.  Or, without the child, she can be shown standing on a ship and holding the sail. 

The "altar" behind might just be the stern of the ship, as the rudder leaning against it would suggest.  On new-style Eastern coins the "altar" on left is usually of the same height as the prow on right, as though both did belong to the same ship.  At Rome the "altar" is usually higher, suggesting two different objects, but maybe the prow has just been made smaller so Isis can put her foot on it, while the stern is enlarged so the rudder can be clearly rendered.  As Elberling remarked, is it likely that Isis would turn her back to her altar?

Two other details require explanation: the polos Isis wears on her head, not her traditional "horns, disk, and plumes", and the small wreath she holds in her r. hand, not readily visible because overlapping her dress and rarely if ever mentioned in descriptions of the type.

It would be good to check whether this coin type is discussed in the several exhaustive articles on the motif of "Isis nursing Horus" that are cited in LIMC.

Another argument in favor of the Isis ID: the type may well date to 200 and reflect the imperial family's visit to Egypt in 199-200.  The type certainly belongs after 198, because very rare on bronze coins, but before 202, since it was copied on the new-style Eastern coins which ended in that year.  The unique Isis and Horus sestertius that I know shares its obv. die with another unique coin showing the Hilaritas type of Cohen 76 (holding long palm and scepter); and this same Hilaritas type is die-linked on aurei to the dynastic series of 201-2.
Logged

Curtis Clay
moonmoth
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2522



WWW
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2007, 04:05:41 am »

Curtis, that is some nice observation.  I had a browse through the Coin Archives specimens and it seems that some of the engravers in Rome didn't really know what they were engraving.  Here are some examples from Coin Archives showing from Rome, a definite altar and a definite ship's stern; and from Laodicea, a definite ship.  There are plenty of indeterminate objects from Rome too - these two are from engravers who at least had some definite objects in mind.

The wreath is interesting.  Some coins don't seem to show it.  I was interpreting this gesture as offering the breast to the child, but I can see on my own coin that it could easily be a small wreath.

There are coins of Caracalla showing Serapis (the other major Egyptian deity in Rome) with a small wreath made of corn ears.  I wonder if this could be the same sort of thing? Alternatively, it could be a teething ring for the child. (That last is a wild surmise not supported by any evidence.)

Logged

"... A form of twisted symbolical bedsock ... the true purpose of which, as they realised at first glance, would never (alas) be revealed to mankind."
Congius
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1611



« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2007, 05:09:28 am »

Interesting topic! I have the Domna Saecvli Felicitas type myself and had always taken it as given that it was Isis, but thinking about it there really doesn't seem to be much to go on to make that identification, although the imperial travels to Egypt at the time that Curtis mentions does strengthen the case.

The polos/kalathos does seem very odd for Isis - one would really expect the horns+sun disc crown of Hathor or conceivably the throne crown (see intact version below), although I've never noticed the latter on a roman coin. Interestingly though there's a provincial Septimius type showing Isis Faria with polos on Coin Archives (attached). I wonder if this is normal for this particular type or just an error?

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=93147&AucID=99&Lot=737

The only other "Isis" with kalathos I could find was an odd terracotta Isis-Aphrodite with a huge kalathos decorated with the crown of Hathor.

It's also noticable that the depiction on the coin doesn't show the infant being nursed, nor does he(?) bear any attributes identifying him with horus/harpocrates. Nor does the female figure carry a sistrum or wear the knot of Isis (despite elaborate drapery being depicted) that would make the identification more secure. She does seem to have long braided hair which is sometimes seen on Isis.

(continued below, so I can add more pictures)
Logged
Congius
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1611



« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2007, 05:31:45 am »

Searching coin archives, the clearest version of the wreath-like object being held by the female figure is the one below, where it does seem to show some structure - like a ring being grasped at one side with three ball-like objects threaded onto it on the other. It's not a sistrum (could be some type of rattle, though), but nor does it bring to mind any object that would attribute the figure as any other deity/personification.

The only things that come to mind for the polos are that it could either be basically an error - maybe intended as a very small throne crown (although normally clearly depicted as a kalathos with top lip), just as the Hathor crown is shown much reduced on the roman Isis (see example from Hadrian's villa below), or maybe it's indended to show a more generic mother goddess - a merged version of Isis and Cybele (who repeatedly appears on Domna's coins), perhaps. I did find another provincial on Coin Archives where Cybele appears to be shown with a kalathos rather than the expected turretted crown.

[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Ben
Logged
Robin Ayers
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 609


Ms. arizonarobin :)


« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2007, 06:47:28 pm »

Here is mine, although it is not the sharpest image. Note the crown-
Logged

slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2007, 06:53:36 pm »

Thank you, Robin.  Whatever else it is, that crown is no kalathos, and I suspect that the engraver intended an Egyptian hairdo as well.  It is a neat coin.  Pat L.

I photographed this in the Late Egyptian room at the Louvre, and I think it's Dyn. XXVI (Saitic) or later, but I didn't take time to copy the label!
Anyhow here is a rather academically correct Egyptian rather than Greco-Egyptian Holy Family.  From studying its relations with Archaic Greek art, I have become particulaly fond of late Dynastic and Greco-Egyptian art.  So I'll just share this tiny one.  P.L.
Logged
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 12:55:03 pm »

I got this Alexandria diobol not because Hadrian looks pretty, but for its Isis reverse.  Since the dealer practically insisted on sending it registered (from that dangerous place, Belgium), I expect it will take some time.  If it hadn't been for Isis, I probably would have been leery of it, as I am of the registered mail business.*  In any case, that is why I'm using the dealer's pictures.  I hope that it's OK (usually I post only what I have in hand).
*Today the seller returned my payment for registered mail.
So here is Isis nursing Horus-Harpokrates.  Now to the library to get BMC Alexandria.  I have come to grief on Alexandria before now, and it has no L on it.
Pat L.
Logged
Rugser
Deceased Member
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2636



« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 04:38:50 pm »

Thanks Pat for these interesting discussions   
I learn a lot of things on the history and on the art.   
These are my coins with ISIS.   
Is what seen in hand to Anubis it is a "sistrum" ?     
Best regards   
ser
Logged

slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2007, 04:47:02 pm »

Yes, indeed, Anubis holds an excellent sistrum.  I wouldn't worry about my coin if it looked like yours.  And that little lotus-like crown is a legitimate variety of Isis crown, too.  And your Isis heads say FARIA!
I am waiting to see what others say about my coin; meantime I'll look at BMC and LIMC pages.
Pat L.
Logged
Jochen
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10903


Omnes vulnerant, ultima necat.


« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2007, 05:07:28 pm »

Hi Pat!

I think I can see a IS in the r. field of your coin. Then it would be year 16 = AD 131/132. Usually this type has the L on the field l. of the throne, but may be it is worn away. I have found a type like yours in 'Gisela Förschner, Die Münzen der römischen Kaiser in Alexandrien, Historisches Museum Frankfurt am Main, 1987', but with two hawks sitting on the back of the throne. Ref.: Datt. - cp. 1749; SNG Cop. 370 (without the hawks!); Köln 1046.

So it seems to be the type in SNG Cop.!

Best regards
Logged

Congius
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1611



« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2007, 05:56:59 pm »

I have a very similar coin to Pats, but not identical. I'd be interested if anyone could give a precise attribution for it, and let me know what the jug-like (?) object in left field is, and what the sceptre-like thing is that Horus/Harpocrates is holding. The weight is 10.38g, which I believe makes it a diobol.

Ser - I love those festival of Isis pieces!

Ben
Logged
slokind
Tribuna Plebis Perpetua
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815


Art is an experimental science


WWW
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2007, 08:10:45 pm »

I found Ben's.  It is illustrated in LIMC sv Isis, pl. 514, Isis 219, which = BMC 761, Dattari 1750, pl. 17, Milne 1345, Geissen AlexKaisermünzen II, 1045.  I am just copying what is there, sv Isis p. 777, no. 219.  I don't find the vase mentioned, whether a canopic jar of Hadrianic issue or some other jar.  I ought to have noted who wrote the article; I can go back tomorrow, if you want.  P.L.
Yes, the infant is holding a lotus bud on its stem.  And, is that a 'canopic urn' at left?  With a vulture head?
There is even, ibid., no. 223, a Hadrianic coin showing this statuary composition (and the lotus bud held by Harpokrates) in an Egyptian temple/shrine.  Cool Coin!
Pat L
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All Go Up Print 
FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numism  |  Reading For the Advanced Collector  |  Topic: Isis « previous next »
Jump to:  

Recent Price Reductions in Forum's Shop


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 5.342 seconds with 70 queries.