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Author Topic: Helena Avgusta  (Read 5230 times)

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imperatorat

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Helena Avgusta
« on: March 31, 2007, 06:57:58 am »
I have coin of Helena Avgusta
avers:NO LEGENDS
revers:Helena Avgusta

show my picture of moneta

Offline Rupert

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2007, 05:12:16 pm »
Wow - I've never seen this type or heard of it. It's not in RIC. It's from Constantinople, first officina, the mintmark places it in the first issues of the newly-opened mint, 326 to 328. I'm no specialist for the coins of this period, but IMHO it's VERY rare, keep it well or only sell it for A LOT of money!

Rupert
Ducunt volentem fata, nolentem trahunt.

Offline bpmurphy

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2007, 05:56:56 pm »
Neat coin. How big is it and how much does it weight? I'm working on a small project for the Constantinople mint and would love a better photo. Can you supply something bigger than a 4k photot? If you are willing, I'd also like to photograph it and would be happy to pay postage to do so. Contact me off-list.

Thanks.

Barry Murphy

gavignano

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2007, 09:55:12 pm »
I too would like to see a bigger pic - I am not convinced yet the obverse has no legend - if it doesn't, this would be a very rare coin.

vic9128

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2007, 10:55:08 pm »
I am not convinced yet the obverse has no legend - if it doesn't, this would be a very rare coin.

Even if it had a legend this would be a very rare coin!

Offline wolfgang336

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2007, 07:27:07 am »
Could it be a trial piece out of Constantinople about c328 to run concurrent with the Dafne series? Victor has his anepigraphic Dafne piece... could this be a possible accompaniment?

Evan

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2007, 08:58:09 am »
Could it be a trial piece out of Constantinople about c328 to run concurrent with the Dafne series? Victor has his anepigraphic Dafne piece... could this be a possible accompaniment?

Evan

Yeah - I assume it's associated with the anepigraphic Dafne, but it doesn't need to have been a trial piece - just scarce. The anepigraphic Dafne is itself only known from 6 specimens as far as I know. It might also have been discontinued early due to Helena's death around that date.

The bust seems like it may possibly be a "heavenly gaze" type matching that of Constantine on the Dafne, and the reverse type obviously has a lot in common - Victory seated on cippus, holding olive branch (+ cornucopia?). Victory also seems to have her right foot on a ship's prow which would allude to Crispus's victory and might be taken as another indication that this follows Libertas Pvblica (it would be duplicative imagery if it ran in parallel).

Ben

gavignano

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2007, 08:02:58 pm »
Ben - when I rotate the pic, it doesn't seem like the heavenly gaze type. I know you said "might" be. Anything strike you specificallyfrom the photo posted?

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2007, 08:13:27 pm »
Joe,
Here's the rotated (to make neck vertical) version I was going by... It's hard to be sure, but it looks as if the jaw is tilted up relative to the neck, and that this is confirmed by the plane of the front of the face also being tilted back. The top and back of the head don't look inconsistent with this. We really need a better photo though.

Ben


Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2007, 08:42:13 pm »
Here's another version, in case it's any better.

I thought the bust looked a bit odd, and just realized that it might be Constantinopolis (with laureate helmet), not Helena herself... definitely need a better picture!

Ben

vic9128

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2007, 10:38:42 pm »
I don't believe that this is a Constantinopolis bust for a few reasons, besides what would be an unusual direction for the bust to face. There is not a reversed spear across the shoulder and there is no tail, which the Constantinopolis helmets have. It also looks more like a diadem (I seem to see a forehead jewel) than a laurel wreath. The clothing doesn't look right either. It also resembles a coiffure more than the Constantinopolis crest, because the crest on a helmet has vertical lines representing the plumes, while this coin appears to have lines going straight back, consistent with hair combed back. A better picture would clear it up quick enough, though.

I have attached a Constantinopolis from Constantinople for comparison



black-prophet

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2007, 11:01:34 pm »
Funny Victor I was just going to post roughly the same thing.So I'll post some Helena hairstyles for comparison instead.Also I hope this isn't another April fools joke because it's really quite remarkable for lrbc collectors if this turns out to be an entirely new type.

gavignano

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2007, 12:49:50 pm »
Hmm.This poster has one post. He hasn't been back on with another post for this thread.
I also was wondering if this was an April Fool's joke - one thought was a doctored obverse of a Helena (legend removed), with the reverse of another coin. However, the flan cut at about 3:00 makes it look like the same coin.
This indeed would be a major discovery for lrbc's. So why isn't he back???

vic9128

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2007, 12:55:22 pm »
with the reverse of another coin.

Which coin do you suggest that this reverse was taken from?

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Helena Augusta
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2007, 01:12:23 pm »
Someone can write him at his e-mail address, which he gives in his profile:  imperatorat@abv.bg .

Do they observe April Fool's Day in Bulgaria?
Curtis Clay

Offline Rupert

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2007, 03:51:19 pm »
Well, the portrait sure looks like Helena's. The photograph surely is bad, but I don't see an obv. legend, which also would make no sense with HELENA AUGUSTA as rev. legend. The rev. type resembles the Constantiniana Dafne reverses a lot, but is different in many aspects. The type is most likely Pax, with a branch and a cornu copiae, seated left, her right foot on a prow.
IMHO the most likely thing is that the poster is a coin dealer or sorter at a very early stage in the "Balkan Supply Food Chain" who found a real big-time rarity here.

Rupert
Ducunt volentem fata, nolentem trahunt.

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2007, 04:39:13 pm »
The type is most likely Pax

I'm pretty sure it's Victory rather than Pax - you can see the tops and ends of her wings.

Ben

gavignano

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2007, 09:27:53 pm »
Victor - I was wrong on that reverse - I thought I had read of one other Helena like this, but could not find the source. It seems no coin of Helena has ever been reported with this reverse.

My goodness, this now has me thinking this is a genuine issue from Constantinople - . Your excellent page on Dafne issues with great photos makes me think this is clearly a coin from that series.

but its anepigraphic nature has we wondering - if it is a presentation piece, why is Helena portrayed on the obverse?  Would it be as simple as that the mint director expanded the series into his family? Or did Constantine order such himself? He was in Constantinople right then....

imperatorat

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2007, 04:42:30 am »
Legends of revers is:HELENA AVGUSTA
NO LEGENDS of Avers

Optimus

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Re: Helena Augusta
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2007, 08:41:41 am »
Someone can write him at his e-mail address, which he gives in his profile:  imperatorat@abv.bg .

Do they observe April Fool's Day in Bulgaria?

Yes, Curtis, they do...  ;)

imperatorat

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2007, 01:13:04 pm »
NEW PIC.OF HELENA AVGUSTA

imperatorat

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2007, 01:18:32 pm »
« on: March 31, 2007, 04:57:58 am »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have coin of Helena Avgusta
avers:NO LEGENDS
revers:Helena Avgusta

show my picture of moneta
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

it's no JOKE doing that

vic9128

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2007, 02:03:26 pm »
Hello imperatorat, you have a very nice and rare coin, thanks for sharing it with us. I have joined the pics together.


imperatorat

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2007, 02:17:17 pm »
thank you Victor

gavignano

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Re: Helena Avgusta
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2007, 08:17:16 pm »
imperatorat:
Also, thank you for sharing this extremely rare coin with the board. I think it is the only known recorded specimen. Its so exciting that I found trouble believing it at first.
The other known Dafne type reverses with the anepigraphic obverse (of Constantine) was recorded about 1990 or so.
Unlike modern coins, a new type pops up every few years in Roman ancients - but this is the largest size late bronze entirely new type, apparently a dig find?,  to come along, I think, in quite a while.
It makes us wonder, it is likely, if not probable, there are more larger bronze types (entire new oberse with a new reverse) still to be found underground. How exciting!!
Thanks again. Joe

 

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