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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Authentication, Fakes and Frauds (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: help ID, coins bought at ephesus, turkey 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: help ID, coins bought at ephesus, turkey  (Read 4480 times)
morisz
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« on: September 24, 2006, 08:37:14 am »

they might be fakes, we have no idea. would appreciate some kind of clue to them. thanks
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2006, 08:43:24 am »

Yes, it's a modern fake, imitating a Lysimachos tetradrachm.

Lars
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morisz
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 08:53:42 am »

i see Sad we have 5 more coins, can i post here lets say 2 more coins to see if those are also fakes? its 1 more silver and 4 which are of some different kind of metal which i dont know what it is..
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2006, 08:59:20 am »

Go ahead, but don't expect them to be genuine. Coins sold to tourists in Turkey are almost always fake.

Also, don't forget that it exporting genuine ancient coins out of Turkey is strictly prohibited - better to buy fakes than to get into jail.

Lars
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morisz
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2006, 09:05:01 am »

yeah exactly, we thought a long time before buying them and we decided that if they are fakes then we have a nice souvenir and if they are real we might use the money for a good purpose..
here they go
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morisz
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2006, 09:06:42 am »

and the 2 which are of some other kind of material. would you happen to know what are they made from? plus the previous ones, do you think its actually silver?
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2006, 09:19:32 am »

Yes, two more fakes: the first imitating a Philip II. Tetradrachm, the second a Vespasianus bronze. I don't know whether the first two are from silver; probably not, but it wouldn't make a big difference as the melting value of silver would be pretty low.

You probably best keep them as souvenir.

Lars
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morisz
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2006, 09:32:54 am »

ye they look real nice, we are gonna keep them for sure as souvenirs. since you really seem to know these, would you be so kind as to ID the 2 coins left (1 of the bronze imitations is the same as the "silver" one)? it would be nice to at least know which ones we have for showing off Wink
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morisz
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2006, 09:34:54 am »

and the last one
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2006, 09:55:03 am »

The second last imitates a provincial medallion of Gordianus III (238-244 AD), a Homonoia issue of Ephesus with Alexandria.

The last one imitates a byzantine Follis, however, this is not my field, so others may tell you who the ruler is. I can read CONSTAN AVG, and the reverse says "year 14", but that didn't lead me to any match. The style looks like 6. Century AD, but with "year 14", no ruler earlier than Constans II. (641-668 AD) and Constantine IV. (668-685) would match - but these issued different coins. So maybe I missed something or it doesn't imitate a real coin.

Lars
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morisz
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2006, 10:11:39 am »

Thanks a bunch, appreciate it. Now we have some stuff to go along with our stories from those 3 weeks at Turkey Smiley
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virtvsprobi
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2006, 11:11:15 am »

This will be a great addition to the fakes board. Note how the "patina" and the deposits of the last 3 coins are identical, even though they are from different periods and at least 2 of these would never be found together.

G/<
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2006, 01:25:27 pm »

Yes, I was thinking that it won't do to enthuse too much about desert patina; a coin needs to be all the more convincing than others to compensate for the facts that (a) it can be produced now, on the spot, and (b) it does hide things, such as possible weakness and improbability.  The way that it is fashionable to clean only the high surfaces only tempts forgers.  Since it is not really a patina, all the easier.  Pat L.
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2006, 06:32:13 pm »

Is there any chance you could photograph the edges of the coins, especially the silver ones? If there is a casting seam or file marks it would be a blessing to collectors to have a good reference of what faked coin edges look like. Your photo skills would surely show it well.

Nice coins as fakes go, they do them well in Turkey.
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2006, 07:55:03 pm »

These are all much nicer fakes then those offered to me when I visited Ephesus nearly a decade and a half ago. Those offered to me were very poorly rendered with little left to the experienced imagination other then to conclude that the only things that were real in that room I was in was myself and maybe the "dealer" though I was pretty sure about myself at the time.

It's nice to see a little more effort going into the rendering, though it is still pretty obvious that these are fakes.....caveat emptor!....count your fingers after shaking hands and spend your money on a rug in Kusadasi instead (not where the guides take you, someplace off the beaten path, not plying you with tea and customary shakedowns).
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2006, 08:14:28 am »

Please add to fake coin reports.  After added, please move this to Numism.  Thanks.
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2006, 09:10:11 am »

I especially like the last one, which is more a hybrid than a follis resembling to Constantine IV.
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2006, 09:50:52 am »

The lysimachos fake is a popular one, turning up on eBay every so often.

Peter
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2006, 03:27:12 pm »

The first two are pressed Bulgarian School copies. They're often sold on eBay as replicas, and are quite well done, well styled and produced and made of silver. The last three appear to be crude cast fakes, not well done, and probably originated in Turkey, looking very much like other tourist fakes (could fool only a tourist) I've seen that were bought in Turkey in a similar fasion (Turkey has skillful engravers too, though Bulgaria remains the center for this kind of work).
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2006, 10:11:29 am »

If I am not mistaken, some of those fakes can also be purchased in Petra, Jordan, I am almost positive that I saw the same Vespasian for sale in Petra.  These seem to have a wide area of distribution.
Ronn
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2007, 08:20:25 am »

Doing some overdue housekeeping on the fakes board...

Fake reports submitted and moved to numism as requested by Joe.

Whilst submitting the reports I noticed that we have examples of three of the coins there already.

The Lysimachos and Philip II sold by antika99



And the Vespasian without the false desert patina. Listed in "Counterfeit Studios and their Coins" by Prokopov and Manov on pages 63-64 (num. 84).



Regards,
Martin
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2007, 09:08:08 am »

The desert patinas should all be kept together for sure so people can see that this is being done and what they might look like. These desert "patinas" being fashonable (i do like the real ones tho) are only making it easier for forgers, more of the coin they can hide
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Authentication, Fakes and Frauds (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: help ID, coins bought at ephesus, turkey « previous next »
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