Author Topic: Modern Sestertius and Double Sestertius (Read 7159 times)

NervousRex · « **Reply #25 on:** August 20, 2006, 08:49:41 am »

here is a nice young head Victoria Shilling from my large colection of British coins.notice the number above the date to see how the dies wore out.

Rupert · « **Reply #26 on:** August 20, 2006, 11:06:27 am »

@ Congius: That's an awfully nice penny for £5! Since it is pre-1860, you didn't even have a theoretical chance to get them in your change before the decimalization; on the other hand, they weren't in circulation that long, so they're not so rare in better than VG.

@ Nervous Rex: Is this the die number? Does this mean it was the 84th die prepared for this year? Good lord, somebody might try to collect not only the dates but also the die numbers... that's a limitless task.

Rupert

NervousRex · « **Reply #27 on:** August 20, 2006, 12:51:52 pm »

Rupet.you are correct about the die nombers.it could take a lifetime to collect all for every date.

NervousRex · « **Reply #28 on:** August 20, 2006, 12:59:59 pm »

1730 George ll halfpenny

Rupert · « **Reply #29 on:** August 20, 2006, 01:38:54 pm »

Cool coin! A really graceful Britannia, and a laureate and cuirassed bust that hasn't changed since the days of Antoninus Pius.

Rupert

NervousRex · « **Reply #30 on:** August 20, 2006, 02:05:22 pm »

this time George llll with a diferent Brittania.this is a Tharthing

slokind · « **Reply #31 on:** August 20, 2006, 04:41:49 pm »

Yes, slippery slope is the problem. Speaking of Latinity, though, and the model of Empire. Assuming 'BRITANNAR:' means 'of the British', when Edward VII has 'BRITT:', is that on the model of AVGG?
Pat L.
Young Victoria has BRITANNIAR: (I omitted the I).

*Alex · « **Reply #32 on:** August 20, 2006, 06:21:41 pm »

Quote from: slokind on August 20, 2006, 04:41:49 pm

Speaking of Latinity, though, and the model of Empire. Assuming 'BRITANNAR:' means 'of the British', when Edward VII has 'BRITT:', is that on the model of AVGG?
Pat L.

Yes, I believe it is the plural as AVGG is the plural of Augustus. i.e. The abbreviated legend BRITT OMN REX (BRITANNIARUM OMNIUM REX) = King of all the Britons.

Alex.

Rupert · « **Reply #33 on:** August 20, 2006, 07:16:34 pm »

Quote from: *Alex on August 20, 2006, 06:21:41 pm

Yes, I believe it is the plural as AVGG is the plural of Augustus. i.e. The abbreviated legend BRITT OMN REX (BRITANNIARUM OMNIUM REX) = King of all the Britons.

Alex.

No, that would be BRITANNORUM, wouldn't it? Britanniarum would have to mean "of all parts of Britain", literally "of all Britains", IMHO.

Rupert

slokind · « **Reply #34 on:** August 20, 2006, 09:02:35 pm »

Mea culpa. I omitted the I in BRITANNIAR: on the young Victoria penny I was copying. So 'Britanniarum' means 'of all the inhabitants of Britain'? Pat L.
Pritanni > Britannia (land of the Pritanni) > Britannii > Rex / Regina Britanniarum (monarch of all the inhabitants of that land). Certainly, it did not by then exclude all the other Celtic groups or the Anglo-Saxons or the Normans (for that matter).

curtislclay · « **Reply #35 on:** August 20, 2006, 09:29:10 pm »

No, "of all the Britannias" as Rupert says, that is (I suppose), "of England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland".

moonmoth · « **Reply #36 on:** August 21, 2006, 01:44:57 am »

Quote from: curtislclay on August 20, 2006, 09:29:10 pm

No, "of all the Britannias" as Rupert says, that is (I suppose), "of England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland".

England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland today is called "Great Britain." So today there is just one Britain, which is why I asked earler on what "all the Britains" were. It sounds odd to modern ears. Yours is a reasonable conjecture.

Earlier coins refer to England, France and Ireland as separate entities, so Ireland was not always referred to as a Britain. This is from an Elizabeth I threepence:

ELIZABETH D G ANG FR ET HIB REGINA

No Scotland then. Charles the first:

CAROLUS D G MA B FR ET H REX

So at that point I presume Great Britain ("MA B") included England, Scotland and Wales, but not Ireland.

BRITANNIARUM REX FID DEF was seen in the early 1800s. "All the Britains" seems to have arrived with the Victoria "old head" coins:

VICTORIA DEI GRA BRITT REGINA FID DEF IND IMP

Perhaps it was a convenient abbreviation to allow IND IMP to be crammed in.

Bacchus · « **Reply #37 on:** August 21, 2006, 02:46:17 am »

Quote from: moonmoth on August 21, 2006, 01:44:57 am

England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland today is called "Great Britain." So today there is just one Britain, which is why I asked earler on what "all the Britains" were. It sounds odd to modern ears. Yours is a reasonable conjecture.

Nearly

England Scotland and Wales are 'Great Britian'
England, Scotland, Wales and NI are the 'United Kingdom' (of.....etc.)

It is surprising the number of UK civil servants who write official documents (which I have to read) that get this confused.

A few smaller islands, eg the Isle of Man (and we all know what their output of coins are like) are part of neither.

Malcolm

Diederik · « **Reply #38 on:** August 21, 2006, 03:28:32 am »

The UNITED Kingdom exists only since the first of May 1707 when Queen Anne united the Kingdoms of England and Scotland, which had been separate kingdoms ruled by one monarch. On the death of Elizabeth I in 1603, the Catholic king James VI of Scotland, became James I of England.
Britanniarum probably goes nack to the old Roman title Dux Romaniarum, one of the three highest ranking military commands, instituted by Diocletian or Constantine I.

Frans

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #39 on:** August 21, 2006, 05:50:04 am »

I found a proclamation of George III, issued in 1801, which translates 'GEORGIUS TERTIUS, Dei Gratia, Britanniarum Rex, Fidei Defensor' as 'GEORGE the THIRD, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith.' If you wade through all the rest of the bumph on the page, you'd probably find more. http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/britstyles.htm#1707

PeterD · « **Reply #40 on:** August 21, 2006, 06:22:23 am »

James I seems to have been the first one to have put a reference to "Great Britain" on his coins. Early issues follow his predecessor, Elizabeth with "JACOBVS DG ANGLO FRAN ET HIB REX" -king of England, France and Ireland. Later issues give "JACOBVS DG MAG BRIT FRA ET HIB REX". Obviously staking his claim!

moonmoth · « **Reply #41 on:** August 21, 2006, 10:39:15 am »

Quote from: Bacchus on August 21, 2006, 02:46:17 am

Quote from: moonmoth on August 21, 2006, 01:44:57 am

England Scotland and Wales are 'Great Britian'
England, Scotland, Wales and NI are the 'United Kingdom' (of.....etc.)

Oops, yes. What gets me thinking that is the common web abbreviation "GBP" - which should really be UKP!

Heliodromus · « **Reply #42 on:** August 21, 2006, 12:06:20 pm »

Quote from: moonmoth on August 21, 2006, 10:39:15 am

Quote from: Bacchus on August 21, 2006, 02:46:17 am
Quote from: moonmoth on August 21, 2006, 01:44:57 am

England Scotland and Wales are 'Great Britian'
England, Scotland, Wales and NI are the 'United Kingdom' (of.....etc.)

Oops, yes. What gets me thinking that is the common web abbreviation "GBP" - which should really be UKP!

Nope - Ireland now uses the Euro (and before that the Irish pre- and post- decimal coinage)!

Ben

curtislclay · « **Reply #43 on:** August 21, 2006, 12:59:04 pm »

Surely the currency of Northern Ireland is still pounds sterling?

Heliodromus · « **Reply #44 on:** August 21, 2006, 01:31:45 pm »

Oops - yes of course! I was thinking of Ireland rather than N. Ireland!

Ben

NervousRex · « **Reply #45 on:** August 21, 2006, 02:31:34 pm »

George ll

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Author Topic: Modern Sestertius and Double Sestertius (Read 7159 times)

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