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Author Topic: Antioch wolf of the day  (Read 3263 times)

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Offline Adrianus

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Antioch wolf of the day
« on: June 22, 2006, 11:04:45 am »
Hi all,

An uncommon workshop for VRBS ROMA - most Antioch coins of this type are workshop  :Greek_Theta: - and I thought an elegant coin to boot.
This SMANI issue for workshop 10 is perhaps the least rare of the non- :Greek_Theta: wolf and twins issues, listed by RIC as R3.
Anyway, enjoy,

Adrianus

Offline ecoli

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 11:07:44 am »
Nice hair on the wolf...Lovely coin.

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 11:13:23 am »
Very nice.

Romulus and Remus look like they're sitting on top of a wall dangling their feet down.

Ben

Offline Rupert

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 05:29:58 am »
Interestingly, the production of Urbs Roma coins in Antioch was distributed over 8 officinae acc. to RIC, the commonest being Theta with r1 (Iota is r3), while the Constantinopolis issues were strictly limited to officina I, this coin, however, being extremely common (c3) so even I have an EF specimen!

Rupert
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Offline Adrianus

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 05:52:39 am »
Hi Rupert,

Yes, in fact delta and epsilon also occur for VRBS ROMA though they are unlisted by RIC. I only have a (horrid) epsilon of these two, however:

Regards,

Adrian

Offline gallienus1

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 08:32:47 am »
Adrianus, you have a great example of one of my all time favorite ancient coins. What beauty and balance they have in their design. I have three examples, I would appreciate any information on why the one in the centre has 3 pellets. Is it a deliberate harking back to the much earlier republican base metal issues?

Offline Adrianus

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 08:39:13 am »
A very nice trio indeed  :)
The three pellets are an issue mark which only occurs at Nicomedia and Heraclea. They would seem to have no other significance, merely being a variation on the use of pellets in the exergual mark. Heraclea has a profusion of pellet marks and, unlike the Western mints, does not really make any use of any other symbols (apart from a star in the last issue). Nicomedia, as in your example, only has two issues; the rare early issue without the pellets and the more common issue with them.
Regards,
Adrianus 

Offline gallienus1

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 08:56:29 am »
Thanks heaps Adrianus!

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 09:29:47 am »
It's interesting that at Heraclea in consequetive issues we can see the number of dots in the control mark (initially in the exergue, then moving into the field) build up from 0->1->2->3, but Nicomedia jump right in with the three dots - appearing to have copied it from Heraclea for no good reason!

Ben

black-prophet

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 03:50:40 pm »
Great coin Adrianus I wish it were mine,and some enlightening dialogue.I was wondering if anyone knows which 8 officinae are known for this issue and there associated rarities.Even Helveticas normally exhaustive lists only has  :Greek_Theta:listed for Antioch.Thanks all.

Offline Rupert

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 04:09:43 pm »
RIC 91, Urbs Roma / She-wolf and Twins, lists the rarities as follows:

A to Gamma and S - r5
Z and H - r4
Theta - r1
I - r3
Delta and E unlisted.

Rupert
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Offline Adrianus

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2006, 04:38:44 pm »
Hi all,
All 10 officinae are now known. RIC lists only the 8. I have only A,  :Greek_epsilon:, H, Z, :Greek_Theta: and I. The Fitzwilliam in Cambridge has a good run of most of the marks, clearly from an unknown hoard discovered in the early years of the last century. These are not easy coins to come by; as we have seen most are thetas. Keep your eyes open  ::)
As for the Heraclea/Nicomedia business, one of the most interesting points to arise is how mints were organised. At Heraclea it seems that production was very much workshop-regulated (i.e. mostly workshop  :Greek_epsilon: for wolf and twins), at Nicomedia it was more fluid. Anyone ever seen a Constantinople wolf in anything other than  :Greek_epsilon: or IA? Or a Thessalonika in anything other than  :Greek_epsilon:? How I wish.... :-[
Regards,
Adrianus

black-prophet

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2006, 04:53:19 pm »
Adrianus and Rupert Thanks for the replies, this is really helpful .It seems you really know alot about this type and your insights are always welcome.Adrianus I'd really like to see some of your VRBS in the galleries as it seems your collection of this type is pretty extensive.Best Regards,BP

Offline Adrianus

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2006, 04:58:17 pm »
Hi BP,
Yes, I should put up a gallery. It's a lovely series. I will do so when time allows it... >:(
Regards,
Adrianus >:(

Offline Rupert

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2006, 05:24:02 pm »
Mint organization is an interesting thing, and challenging to research, since we have absolutely no written evidence but only the coins. At Thessalonica, for example, the coins for Constans as Caesar, both with two and with one soldier (RIC 201, 225, and 226), are listed in RIC from officina Delta exclusively. Yet some months ago I managed to get a very nice RIC 201 from off. Gamma, thus even here with normally strictly separated officinae, some exchange must have taken place.

Rupert
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Offline Adrianus

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Re: Antioch wolf of the day
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2006, 03:08:00 am »
Hi Rupert,
That is nice and gives me hope :) Thessalonika, Rome and Constantinople are the most rigid, certainly for wolf and twins, with each workshop being assigned to the production of one type. If we get a stray at Thessalonika, there's hope for the others.
Regards,
Adrianus

 

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