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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Coin of the Day (Moderator: LordBest)  |  Topic: Antioch wolf of the day 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Adrianus
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« on: June 22, 2006, 09:04:45 am »

Hi all,

An uncommon workshop for VRBS ROMA - most Antioch coins of this type are workshop  Greek_Theta - and I thought an elegant coin to boot.
This SMANI issue for workshop 10 is perhaps the least rare of the non- Greek_Theta wolf and twins issues, listed by RIC as R3.
Anyway, enjoy,

Adrianus
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ecoli
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 09:07:44 am »

Nice hair on the wolf...Lovely coin.
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Congius
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 09:13:23 am »

Very nice.

Romulus and Remus look like they're sitting on top of a wall dangling their feet down.

Ben
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Rupert
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 03:29:58 am »

Interestingly, the production of Urbs Roma coins in Antioch was distributed over 8 officinae acc. to RIC, the commonest being Theta with r1 (Iota is r3), while the Constantinopolis issues were strictly limited to officina I, this coin, however, being extremely common (c3) so even I have an EF specimen!

Rupert
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Adrianus
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 03:52:39 am »

Hi Rupert,

Yes, in fact delta and epsilon also occur for VRBS ROMA though they are unlisted by RIC. I only have a (horrid) epsilon of these two, however:

Regards,

Adrian
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gallienus1
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 06:32:47 am »

Adrianus, you have a great example of one of my all time favorite ancient coins. What beauty and balance they have in their design. I have three examples, I would appreciate any information on why the one in the centre has 3 pellets. Is it a deliberate harking back to the much earlier republican base metal issues?
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Adrianus
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 06:39:13 am »

A very nice trio indeed  Smiley
The three pellets are an issue mark which only occurs at Nicomedia and Heraclea. They would seem to have no other significance, merely being a variation on the use of pellets in the exergual mark. Heraclea has a profusion of pellet marks and, unlike the Western mints, does not really make any use of any other symbols (apart from a star in the last issue). Nicomedia, as in your example, only has two issues; the rare early issue without the pellets and the more common issue with them.
Regards,
Adrianus 
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gallienus1
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 06:56:29 am »

Thanks heaps Adrianus!
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Congius
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 07:29:47 am »

It's interesting that at Heraclea in consequetive issues we can see the number of dots in the control mark (initially in the exergue, then moving into the field) build up from 0->1->2->3, but Nicomedia jump right in with the three dots - appearing to have copied it from Heraclea for no good reason!

Ben
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black-prophet
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 01:50:40 pm »

Great coin Adrianus I wish it were mine,and some enlightening dialogue.I was wondering if anyone knows which 8 officinae are known for this issue and there associated rarities.Even Helveticas normally exhaustive lists only has  :Greek_Theta:listed for Antioch.Thanks all.
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Rupert
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 02:09:43 pm »

RIC 91, Urbs Roma / She-wolf and Twins, lists the rarities as follows:

A to Gamma and S - r5
Z and H - r4
Theta - r1
I - r3
Delta and E unlisted.

Rupert
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Adrianus
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2006, 02:38:44 pm »

Hi all,
All 10 officinae are now known. RIC lists only the 8. I have only A,  Greek_epsilon, H, Z, Greek_Theta and I. The Fitzwilliam in Cambridge has a good run of most of the marks, clearly from an unknown hoard discovered in the early years of the last century. These are not easy coins to come by; as we have seen most are thetas. Keep your eyes open  Roll Eyes
As for the Heraclea/Nicomedia business, one of the most interesting points to arise is how mints were organised. At Heraclea it seems that production was very much workshop-regulated (i.e. mostly workshop  Greek_epsilon for wolf and twins), at Nicomedia it was more fluid. Anyone ever seen a Constantinople wolf in anything other than  Greek_epsilon or IA? Or a Thessalonika in anything other than  Greek_epsilon? How I wish.... Embarrassed
Regards,
Adrianus
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black-prophet
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2006, 02:53:19 pm »

Adrianus and Rupert Thanks for the replies, this is really helpful .It seems you really know alot about this type and your insights are always welcome.Adrianus I'd really like to see some of your VRBS in the galleries as it seems your collection of this type is pretty extensive.Best Regards,BP
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Adrianus
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2006, 02:58:17 pm »

Hi BP,
Yes, I should put up a gallery. It's a lovely series. I will do so when time allows it... Angry
Regards,
Adrianus Angry
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Rupert
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2006, 03:24:02 pm »

Mint organization is an interesting thing, and challenging to research, since we have absolutely no written evidence but only the coins. At Thessalonica, for example, the coins for Constans as Caesar, both with two and with one soldier (RIC 201, 225, and 226), are listed in RIC from officina Delta exclusively. Yet some months ago I managed to get a very nice RIC 201 from off. Gamma, thus even here with normally strictly separated officinae, some exchange must have taken place.

Rupert
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Adrianus
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2006, 01:08:00 am »

Hi Rupert,
That is nice and gives me hope Smiley Thessalonika, Rome and Constantinople are the most rigid, certainly for wolf and twins, with each workshop being assigned to the production of one type. If we get a stray at Thessalonika, there's hope for the others.
Regards,
Adrianus
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