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Author Topic: Get your unpublished Flavian coins into the new RIC  (Read 35582 times)
Jochen
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« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2007, 05:14:36 pm »

Hi Frans!

RIC 539; C. 151 has head l. or r. Felicitas stg. l., holding caduceus and cornucopiae. The letters on the r. side of the rev. look recut to me.

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« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2007, 05:19:04 pm »

Oh, the posting of Frans has vanished!
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« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2007, 06:27:08 pm »

Maybe this one should be posted as a reminder to correct / update the listing:

Vespasian, Rome mint,
Æ Dupondius (26-27 mm / 14.12 g), 71 AD.,
Obv.: IMP CAES VESPASIAN AVG COS III , radiate head of Vespasian right.
Rev.:PAXS - A[V]GVSTI / S - C , Pax standing l., holding cornucopiae in her left arm, setting fire on pile of arms (a helmet, a cuirass, a shield) with a short torch in her right hand.
BM 590 pl. 23.4 ; RIC 475 note (misreading) .

Curtis Clay:
"This dupondius of Vespasian is not unlisted, just misdescribed.
BM 590 pl. 23.4 has a dupondius from the same rev. die, but with the legend weak at the top, resulting in the Anyway, as far as I can see this type only comes from a single rev. die, and this is a very nice specimen, with an excellent portrait!misreading PAX rather than the correct archaic PAXS.
That coin came from a 1924 auction, and may be the identical spec. that was sold without photo in Sotheby's Bizot Sale of 1902, lot 93. The catalogue text also gives PAX not PAXS, and the coin was cited with this presumed misreading by RIC 475 note.
Another spec. from the same rev. die, again with legend not well struck and PAX misread for PAXS, was in Lanz Graz 4, 1974, lot 136.
In my own collection I have a dupondius from the same dies both sides, but only F/ VG and again the S of PAXS not really legible. My ticket says PAXS, however, proving that I knew of this correction earlier, though I can't recall from what source!
Anyway, as far as I can see this type only comes from a single rev. die."
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Frans Diederik
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« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2007, 03:43:41 am »

Hi Jochen,

Perhaps it was best vanished: I think you are correct in stating it is 539 rather than 540.

Frans
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« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2007, 01:59:42 am »

Cos 8 Aequitas, Rome.  Probably already known from other specimens, but a neat find anyway.

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« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2007, 09:44:23 am »

Not in R.I.C. but published by B.M.C. (498) and Cohen (588)

This is a part of the first emission quoted by Tacitus (Histories, II, 82) as the first coins  with the name of Vespasianus stroke in Antioch during the civil war. A rare and intersesting coin !


http://www.fredericweber.com/collection_frederic_weber/vespasien_denier_antioche_victoria.htm

Tacitus (Histories, II, 82) : "The first business of the campaign was to levy troops and recall the veterans to service. The strong cities were set apart for the manufacture of arms; at Antioch gold and silver money was coined, everything being vigorously carried on in its appointed place by properly qualified agents. Vespasian himself went everywhere, urged to exertion, encouraged the industrious by praise, and with the indolent used the stimulus of example rather than of compulsion, and chose to be blind to the faults rather than to the merits of his friends. Many among them he distinguished with prefectures and governments, and several with the honours of senatorial rank; all these were men of eminence who soon reached the highest positions. In some cases good fortune served instead of merit. Of a donative to the troops Mucianus in his first speech had held out only moderate hopes, and even Vespasian offered no more in the civil war than others had done in times of peace, thus making a noble stand against all bribery of the soldiery, and possessing in consequence a better army. Envoys were sent to Parthia and Armenia, and precautions were taken that, when the legions were engaged in the civil war, the country in their rear might not be exposed to attack. It was arranged that Titus should pursue the war in Judaea, while Vespasian should secure the passes into Egypt. "
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« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2007, 10:32:00 pm »

Hi Curtis
I believe this As Of Domitian is not in RIC (nor Cohen)
AE AS 26 mm 10.0 gr
Ov: "IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM COS XI CENS PER P P" - Bust. laureate r. with aegis.
Rv: "FIDEI PVBLICAE - S C" - Fides standing l. holding basket of fruit and corn-ears.

RIC Vol. II #298 Pag.192 list. "IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM COS XI CENS POT P P" not "CENS PER P P"
Cohen Vol. I #108/9 (with or without aegis) Pag.480 also list "IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM COS XI CENS POT P P" not "CENS PER P P"

You will say me if I am mistaken.
Gracias
Mario
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« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2007, 07:51:28 am »

Mario,

Thanks. 

BM 364 is another like yours, so it will be recorded in the new RIC.

Curtis
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« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2007, 09:51:11 am »

Hello Curtis, I hope I'm not too late with this one. Here's a coin I recently acquired which I couldn't find in RIC:

Vespasian, Orichalcum Semis
Obv. IMP CAESAR VESPASIAN AUGUST
Laureate head right
Rev. Oak wreath with SC in it
Orichalcum, diam. 21 mm, weight 4.29 gr, die axis 6 o'clock

Sorry for the bad pictures, this coin is hard to photograph. The surface looks as if it had be partly cleaned with something abrasive, with remaining encrustations (too hard to be plain dirt) in the devices. I see no evidence for a modern forgery, especially not for casting.

Rupert
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« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2007, 05:53:23 pm »

An interesting novelty, apparently belonging to the series of orichalcum coins with Latin legends struck somewhere in Asia Minor, 77-78 AD, for Vespasian COS VIII, Titus COS VI, and Domitian COS V, all rare.

RPC 1478, in Oxford ex NAC F, 1996, lot 1564, is quite similar to Rupert's coin: same size and metal, same obv. legend and portrait (legend misread VESPASIANVS in RPC, actually VESPASIAN as on Rupert's), same oak-wreath rev. type, but SPQR / OB / C S within, not SC as on Rupert's coin.

RPC 1476-7 are coins of the same size and with the same obv. legend and portrait, but their reverses have Vespasian's characteristic legend of this issue, PON MAX TR P P P COS VIII CENS S C. So there is no doubt that the undated RPC 1478 and Rupert's new coin belong to the same issue.

I will notify Ian Carradice of this coin, but don't know whether he can still squeeze it into the new RIC, since he told me recently that the revised volume is about to go to press.
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Curtis Clay
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« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2007, 11:33:49 pm »

Looks like this bust variant with aegis has to be added:

Domitian, Rome mint, 90-91 AD.,
Æ Sestertius (33-35 mm / 22,01 g),
Obv.: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM - COS XV CENS PER P P , laureate bust of Domitian right, aegis at left shoulder.
Rev.: IOVI - VICTORI / S - C , Jupiter enthroned left holding Victory in extended right hand, scepter in left.
RIC - (cf. 388: without aegis) ; Coh. - (cf. 314: without aegis) ; BMC - (cf. 439-442: without aegis) ; CBN - (cf. 476: without aegis) .

So far i found 2 other coins - obverse die matches - on coinarchieves.
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=20637&AucID=22&Lot=529
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=74561&AucID=79&Lot=528

Regards,

A.
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« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2007, 02:41:54 am »

Hello Curtis, I hope I'm not too late with this one. Here's a coin I recently acquired which I couldn't find in RIC:

Vespasian, Orichalcum Semis
Obv. IMP CAESAR VESPASIAN AUGUST
Laureate head right
Rev. Oak wreath with SC in it
Orichalcum, diam. 21 mm, weight 4.29 gr, die axis 6 o'clock

Sorry for the bad pictures, this coin is hard to photograph. The surface looks as if it had be partly cleaned with something abrasive, with remaining encrustations (too hard to be plain dirt) in the devices. I see no evidence for a modern forgery, especially not for casting.

Rupert

Curtis alerted me to this. It's already in the new RIC, referenced to the only other example we know: G. Hirsch 206 24 Nov 1999 lot 388. So we can change its rarity from R3 (only one example known) to R2 (still extremely rare).

Ian Carradice
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« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2007, 03:43:15 pm »

Thanks a lot for this information! I looked up the Hirsch catalogue, which I happen to have, and it seems that my coin is from the same reverse die as the Hirsch specimen; the obverse is certainly from the same hand, but IMHO from a just very slightly different die.

Rupert
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« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2007, 01:43:45 pm »

A nice Vespasian As from his home mint, supporting his way to imperial power:

Vespasian, Hispania, Tarraco mint (?), 69-70 AD.,
Æ As (27-28 mm / 10,28 g),
Obv.: IMP CAESAR VESPASIANVS AVG P M TR P , laureate bust of Vespasian right.
Rev.: [PONT MAX TR?] P COS II DESIG III FORT RED / S - C , front view of Fortuna standing, her head left, her right hand on prow, her left holding cornucopia.
RIC II, - (cf. p. 62, 387, 390) .

Regardos
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« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2007, 01:02:43 pm »

This coin was sold last night on Ebay by David Hendin (not to me). I thought I knew the type, but I just read that RIC only knows it for Domitian. Vespasian's normal reverse for this obverse would be a caduceus.

AE quadrans
Obv. IMP VESPASIAN AUG
Rudder on globe
Rev. SC in laurel wreath
13.8 mm, 1.38 g according to Mr. Hendin.

Rupert
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« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2007, 01:26:33 pm »

Looks like a mule.

The obv. was meant to go with a rev. like P M TR P P P COS VII S C, winged caduceus, cf. BMC p. 170.

The rev. was meant to go with an obv. such as IMP VESP AVG COS VII, caduceus between crossed cornucopias, BM 727.
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« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2008, 08:38:13 am »

This quadrans (RIC 903 new edition) went missing in the mail.  Please see lost coin report.  If you see this please contact me or Amphora coins.
Thanks
Kevin
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« Reply #67 on: June 13, 2008, 11:00:23 am »

I'm digging out this thread after four months because, if I'm able to read the new RIC correctly (which isn't easy Undecided), I found a coin (in my mail yesterday Wink) which is missing even in RIC².

Orichalcum dupondius, Domitian under Vespasian, 79 AD
Obv. CAESAR AUG F DOMITIAN COS VI
Laureate bust with thin drapery right
Rev. CONCORDIA - AUGUST, SC in ex.
Concordia seated left with cornu copiae and patera
28 mm, 11.84 g, die axis 6 o'clock

RIC² attributes this series of rare sestertii and dupondii with DOMITIAN (no -US) COS VI (RIC Vesp. 1097-1103) to the last months of Vespasian's, another with DOMITIANUS COS VI (RIC Titus 83-88) to the first months of Titus' reign. This separation is made on the grounds of reverse die links with earlier or later issues. Only in the later issue does Concordia appear, but with rev. legend CONCORD instead of CONCORDIA. CONCORDIA AUGUST only appears in 80 (RIC Titus 196-198 for Titus, 339-340 for Domitian; obv. legend for these coins is CAES DIVI VESP F DOMITIAN or DOMITIANUS COS VII).

Best regards,

Rupert
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« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2008, 02:56:09 pm »

Nice acquisition!

That it is unpublished is not surprising, since all bronze of 79 AD is very rare.  The known types are recorded in only a few specimens each, so it is to be expected that new examples will bring new types or new varieties!  Of the four dupondii with this obv. legend in RIC 1100-1103, for example, only one is in Cohen and BMC, while the other three are new (one in the Gnecchi coll. in Rome, two from eBay in 2000 and 2002).

I think it would have been better for RIC to describe all of Domitian's coinage of 79 in one place, probably under Vespasian as in BMC, with the notation that some of the coins were clearly struck after Vespasian's death and the accession of Titus.  Dividing the bronze coins between the reigns of Vespasian and Titus as in RIC in the first place is not certain, it's little more than a guess which types belong where, and secondly it's confusing, because you always have to look for your coin in two places, not just one!
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« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2009, 06:31:00 am »

As was to be expected and hoped, unpublished variants of Flavians do not turn up that often with the new RIC. Here's one on which Curtis outbid me today (sorry Curtis, I thought that on German Ebay you were only buying from Lanz).

As, Titus
Obv. IMP T CAES VESP AUG PMTRP COS VIII
Laureate head right
Rev. SECURITAS (AUGUST, SC in ex.)
Securitas seated left on throne, head propped on left hand, sceptre in right hand; in front of her, altar or table with unidentified object

RIC 243 is just like this coin but with Securitas right; 245 like this coin but with head of Titus left.

Rupert
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« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2009, 07:00:10 pm »

Here is the coin, in the seller's pictures; 9.38 gr, 6 h.

It would be nice to be able to confirm AVGVST on rev. from a better specimen from the same reverse die; only AVG[...] can be read on my coin.  SC in exergue is entirely illegible, but can be restored with near certainty.

I guess it's a flame on the altar before Securitas, though it looks like its being blown to the right by a stiff breeze!  There is a clear flame at least in the Lugdunese version of this type under Nero, see CoinArchives image below.  Nero's type also has a lighted torch resting on the ground before the altar, and at Rome a bucranium supports the torch; but these details were apparently omitted from Titus' version of the type.

Rupert, I've been following this seller's auctions since he was strongly recommended some months ago by a member of the German Forum, but this is the first coin I've bought from him!
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« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2010, 03:26:58 am »

Here's another coin missing in the new RICII/1. It was on German Ebay last night; I wanted to bid but it rose from 76 to 215 € within the last ten seconds Angry.

Domitian, denarius, 88 AD
Obv. IMP CAES DOMITIAN AUG GERM PM TRP VIII
Laureate head left
Rev. COS XIIII - LUD SAEC FEC
Herald or priest with helmet with feathers on it?, walking left, holding wand and shield
Weight given as 2.97 g, die axis probably 6 o'clock, judging from the pictures

The reverse type is RIC² 595 to 599; the rare variant with the longer legend (DOMITIAN not DOMIT) and head left is 598, but only known with legend counterclockwise. In this series the obverse of this coin (long legend clockwise, head left) is listed (as R3 or unique) with a different reverse only (RIC 605, rev. column in wreath), that coin is also illustrated, and the obverse die seems to be the same as on this Ebay coin.

Best regards,

Rupert
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« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2010, 11:00:29 am »

A nice unlisted, if it´s official and genuine ...

A bronze core?

 Huh
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« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2010, 11:12:57 am »

I thought about this as well, but don't think so because this coin shares the obv. die with the RIC plate specimen of no. 605, and also the metal visible underneath doesn't look like copper. I think it's a flan flaw where a piece of metal has flaked off.

Rupert
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« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2010, 12:50:44 pm »

Hi everybody. This is my first message in the forum .

It´s a very interesting coin. I also bided the denarius, but it was impossible to win!!!!!!

the coin it´s genuine for me.
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