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Author Topic: Menorah lead seal  (Read 3981 times)

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a

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Menorah lead seal
« on: October 26, 2005, 02:29:05 pm »
Hi all,

This one I finded yesterday. On the obverse is appearing seven branch menorah on tripode with some stick (lulav?) and round figure (citron?) aside.  On the reverse appears two lines hebrew inscription: alef mem? het jod? I suppose that this 16 mm lead seal issued by some official Jewish counsil (Sanhedrin?). Someone saw something similar in past in some book or even on the web? When it was produced and by who?

Thanks,
Explorer

Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 08:07:00 pm »
This is a very odd and interesting piece you have here!  it is certainly not a coin, but it is Jewish.  Looking at the Menorah, it is sitting on a tripod, which it did in reality, while Romans and and everyone else from then on portryed it as sitting on a block or flat base.
I will be very interested to see what it turns out to be!  Good find!
~Zach

PS.  wait a minute... is it just me, or are there four branches on each side of the Menorah?  This would make it a Channukiah, which doesn't make much sense.

Offline Ibex-coins

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 08:53:02 pm »
Not to be too picky, but this is really not a seal.  It should be classified as a token.  If it is lead then it is very difficult to date.  Frank Kovacs has told me that lead tokens can corrode quite easily.  They are a great medium for fakes because they can made to look quite antique in a very short period of time.  Mind you I am not saying that you do not have a geninue antique lead token.  I am just saying that you have to raise your index of suspicion. 
I would wonder if this could be a charity token from the 2nd-4th century C.E.
I will try and look into this further.

Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 10:05:52 pm »
Did you find it or buy it?  If you found it, that would probably mean that it is not a fake.

a

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2005, 04:46:29 am »
Hi All,

Thanks for replies. Firstly, I'm sure that it is menorah and not hanukkia because I see clearly 3 branches on every side. I'm sure almost for 100% that it is the seal because there are two hole entries on the prophile sides of this artifact (just now the hole closed by sand but may be I'll be able to clean it). Regarding the material of the seal - lead, I have number of Byzantine seals from VI-VII centuries in very good condition. I think that it is some seal that was connected to letter.
I find it close to Caesarea ruins.

Regards,
Explorer

Offline Ibex-coins

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2005, 11:34:03 am »
It would be unusual for a seal to have images on both sides wouldn't it?

a

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2005, 11:46:53 am »
I don't know about judean seals, but byzantine seals have monograms and inscriptions on the both sides.

Offline Ibex-coins

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2005, 05:00:14 pm »
I wasn't aware of that, thank you for the clarification.

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2005, 05:10:32 pm »
Hi
I belive it is Amenorah at that seal, I saw Menorahs at early roman oil lamps and they look like this exactuly with the same figures to the right and the left to the basic of the Menorah, but I never saw one at lead seal, I saw many fake leads Menorah in Jordan but not like this, it is intresting realy and I cant say it is real just from photo, but I will examin it if it was me, the Menorah style seem to be early Roman not the Byzantine Menorah that was used at oil lamps too.
 :Judean_mah_3: :Judean_lam_2: :Judean_alef_2: :phoenician_sin_3:

a

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2005, 12:19:15 pm »
Hi all,

I sent this picture to Mr. David Hendin and the following is the answer:

"this is a byzantine period lead seal with menorah. it appears to be a genuine piece, and it dates about 6-8 cen. AD and these are found both in the middle east AND also in europe. this is a lead seal that was used to seal documents, thus it was probably an official in the jewish community of the area where it was used"

Regards,
Explorer

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2005, 03:45:39 pm »
thats cool
I will keep it if it was me, I was looking to have some this with the menorah on it, but it is hard since the Mattathia coins are Rare and expinsive, the oil lamp Byzantine Meorah are not expisivebut the Menorah style is not that beautifull, but the early roman have nice Menorah but they  are expinsive.
 :afro: :Judean_mah_3: :Judean_lam_2: :Judean_alef_5: :Judean_shin_1:

Offline Ecgþeow

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Re: Menorah lead seal
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2005, 08:15:44 pm »
Yeah, the menorah issues are all really cool.  I would LOVE to have a Mattatayah menorah coin, but those go for way too much.  I'm currently looking for a decent and inexpensive Islamic menorah coin.  Those are a bit less expensive than the Judaean ones... ;)
Congratulations on a very neat find!

 :Judean_kaf_3: :Judean_alef_1: :Judean_tsad_3:

 

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