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Author Topic: Abbasid Fals  (Read 3325 times)

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a

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Abbasid Fals
« on: November 07, 2005, 07:28:41 am »
Hi all,

Please, help me to identify this Abbasid falus: mint, year, ruler.

Thanks,
Explorer

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2005, 12:28:08 pm »
Most probably this coin is attributed as follow:
Mint:Madinat as'salam-[a little bit blundered:Baghdad actually]
year:217 H around 832 AD [Sabeh achar wa ma'aitein]
Under the authority of Caliphat:Al 'Ma'mun 194/218 H------810/833 AD[but the name is not struck on the coin,which was very common on copper coins]

nassif

a

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2005, 12:35:17 pm »
Thank you, Nassif!

Can you please, say me additional thing - what is the small sign on the obverse side just under "Muhamad Rasul Allah"?

Thanks,
Explorer

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2005, 02:31:55 pm »
It's "bakh" very controversial word,without real sense...in my opinion,unless somebody can tell us something about it....
nassif

bakkar

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2005, 05:28:05 am »
Abbasid fals mint of Gaza in Palastine  217 H, rare..
The word "Bakh" below means in English "welfare".
regards
Bakkar

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2005, 10:24:05 am »
The mint name is composed [by 2 words] like is shown in marginal legend;personnaly i can see the large "Dal"of madinat whish is very different from 'Zein" of Ghaza in case of Ghaza mint,and this composed mint name is terminated by 'Mim"corresponding as salam.,and if it's really Ghaza coin what is the meaning of the 2 nd word,?it could not be Filastin=Palestine,for a very simple reason that it's a second mint name or a country name:like saying:Baghdad and Iraq...that's impossible.
Concerning "bakh" meaning ,i am really surprised that means "welfare" for 2 reasons:
-Arabic is my maternal language and this word is never used with any kind of meaning.In the Umayyad period,the use of "Tayeb"="Good" was very common,but nothing to do with "Bakh"in my opinion.
-Multiple Abbasids coins had "Bakh"mentionned several times on the same coin,so what's the meaning of that ??if it's really "welfare"no nead to repeat it several times on the same coins..one time should be enough...like "Tayeb"

nassif

a

  • Guest
Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2005, 12:16:07 pm »
Thank you Husni and Nassif for very interesting information.

The Gaza mint is possible option because this coin was found in Ascalon. I suppose that the mint can be defined from the ornament type on reverse, even when the mintname is not so clear.  I'm right?

Regards,
Explorer

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2005, 12:49:15 pm »
The mint in islamic coins as well in roman coins is usually minted,and can be only defined by reading and surely not by any other element.I posted one Abbasid coin with ornament,without  mint identification as you can see...that does not mean that ornament means Ghaza mint,and you have the nice coin posted to confirm it.
Regarding origin of coin,it's not a criteria for real identification;you can find a coin hundreds of miles far from it's origin;my Umayyads coins strucked in Palestine were discovered in Hamah region[north Syria]300 miles far from their origin.

nassif

bakkar

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2005, 04:02:03 pm »
Dear Nassif
THere is something called "the fabric" of a coin which reflects the geographical
area wher the coin is minted. . However, please see this drawing again and tell me wher
is the two parts of Madinat al-Salam.
Again "Bakh" or" Bakh bakh", means the welfare or prosperity to the state or
ruler.
regards
H.Bakkar

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2005, 10:28:46 am »
Dear Bakkar;
I don't know how to use photo shop to show you how it was written,but i can tell you that's is like that:
"Douriba bimadinat asalam sanat....",there is no "Douriba haza al fuls bighaza..."
It was  common on some small fals not to mention "haza al fuls.."
Concerning 'Bakh' word ,there is no mention in any arabic dictionary about it,that's why as i said before this word still very controversial.

This is my opinion,and i will be glad to hear all comments.
Regards.
nassif

PS;i posted one fals with full description where is no mention of "haza al fuls..."there is a lot others.

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2005, 10:31:02 am »
Her is the coin...
Sorry for the description in arabic,can't be loaded..

nassif

bakkar

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2005, 01:21:18 pm »
Dear Nassif
Can you please read the complete inscription on border which mention the mint
name on your last coin?.
regards
Husni

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2005, 03:01:18 pm »
No problem"
"Bismillah douriba haza bidimashq sanat sabeh wa thamanin"
Ref;WALKER:B 48            S. ALBUM:129 (LEGIBLE DATE)
list of coins in Walker without mention:'Haza al Fuls";or direct ;"douriba bi.."P 130,839,841,Zam 1,B 55,944,B 60,777,etc....

Regards.
nassif

bakkar

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2005, 03:28:56 pm »
Thanks Nassif
I was just checking if you are still unconvinced that the above coin is Gaza mint.
regards
Bakkar

Offline Nassif

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Re: Abbasid Fals
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2005, 03:52:40 pm »
Dear Bakkar;
it's not a matter to be "convinced",it's a matter of reading the coin's mint,i can only read what it's written and i presented my arguments...i can't do anything more.
regards.
nassif

 

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