Saloninus

[Pscipio]

This one came home with me after my visit of the Münzenmesse Zürich yesterday:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=581&pos=13

I like this sweet portrait of the woeful little teenager...

Lars

[Frans Diederik]

Very nice coin, Lars, with fine patination! Your words:'woeful teenager' made me wonder about Saloninus' age at the time this coin was struck. Saloninus was born around 242 AD and was elevated to the rank of caesar  in 255 at the death of Valerianus II, which would perfectly explain the very youthful portrait on this coin.

Frans

[AncientCoins]

wow, lars.  great coin!  did u buy it from a museum?  is that what the Münzenmesse Zürich is?

andrew

[mauseus]

Hi Lars,

Nicely preserved and a good old tone, well done.

Mauseus

[Pscipio]

@andrew: the Münzenmesse Zürich is a coin show in Zürich, Switzerland.

@Frans: Valerianus II died at the end of 257 AD or at the beginning of 258 AD, and it was only then that his younger brother was elevated to Caesars rank. Too, from both we don't know their birth year because no source tells us. Where did you get 242 AD from?

The fact that in 260 AD Saloninus still needed a senior "advisor" (Silvanus) shows us that he was too young to actually reign on his own. This is why I called him a teenager, it is pretty sure that he was still a youth then. My coin was struck in Gallienus western mint which was installed when he moved to Gaul somewhen about 257 AD so it can't be of earlier date anyway.

Lars

[mauseus]

Hi,

An interesting question as to the date of birth of Saloninus. Kienast in "Romische Kaisertabelle" states that, from the sources he was using, the birth date of Saloninus (and also Valerian II) is unknown.

Regards,

Mauseus

[Numerianus]

Beautiful portrait!

I have a standard one.
As you can see,  in a wear the coin can be graded as a EF or, at least, VF+.
The obverse is quite nice but the reverse die is not very good, badly  executed and torn  to the limit.
I note that for this issue  it is quite typical (the reverse die of Pscipio's example is largely above the average).
What is the reason for such  a specificity? For the Gallienus  coinage it was not rare that  the reverse dies
were used to full wear but the case of Saloninus  went beyond reasonable. 
One can imagine that all quailified  engravers were charged to cut the obverse dies while  the reverse
dies were  cutted in necessity by unexperienced staff ...

[Pscipio]

@Numerianus: yours has a gorgeous portrait, though!

[Frans Diederik]

When I posted my reply, I had been trying to verify my dates. First I used RIC as one of the oldest references; date of birth was not given. Date of elevation was set at Valerianus' death in 255. Chris Scarre's "Chronicle of the Roman Emperors"  puts Valerians' death at 258 somewhere in Illyria and just mentions Saloninus'  death in 260. David Sear's Roman Coins etc.
concurrs with RIC, whereas Wikipedia.org states the date of birth around 242, but blunders in sending both brothers to Germania in 258, whereas we know(?) Valerian died in 255.
That's how far a quickscan last night went; I'll browse the web for other reliable information and ' I will be back'


Frans

[Pscipio]

From both numismatic and historical evidences we know that Saloninus died during the revolt of Postumus which most probably took place in late 260 AD. Valerianus II, on the other hand, can not have died in 255 AD since both numismatic and epigraphic evidences show that he was still alive then (König, for example, mentiones a papyrus dated year to the 14. February 258 AD as latest document which knows Valerianus II. as Caesar*). Since neither alexandrian nor imperial coins mention Saloninus and Valerianus II. as contemporaneous Caesars (in fact, the coins from both Caesars can temporally clearly be divided) we can assume that is was only in late 257 AD or early 258 AD that Valerianus II. had died and Saloninus was elevated to Caesar.

I haven't found anything trustfull about their birth years, so I guess this is more or less oben to debate - in other words, we just don't know it. I wonder, however, where wikipedia got its year from.

Regards
Lars

*Since egyptian papyri aren't always up to date, it is possible that Valerianus II. had already died somewhat earlier