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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: The Papal Corner 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: The Papal Corner  (Read 105805 times)
Pabst Geschichte
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« Reply #275 on: August 08, 2014, 01:30:13 pm »

Thanks!  I didn't have a coin of Benedict XII yet, so it's a big milestone for me.  For those who want to know catalog references, they are:

Berman 179
Ryan 196:1
Muntoni 2
Cinagli 4



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« Reply #276 on: February 05, 2015, 07:44:20 am »

I don't know if this qualifies as an "Unlisted New Variety!", but unlisted in Berman, KM, Eklund, Cinagli and Muntoni at least is this variation of the 1802 ½ Baiocco of Pius VII.

All the above sources list only one variety of the 1802 ½ Baiocco, that with the reverse legend spelled PONTIFICATVS.  Here is a variety that spells it PONTIFICATV (without the final S).  Also there are other variations, among them the placement of the cords at the bottom of the shield, and the spacing in the denominationdot BAI

Also, the weights are significantly different, even though both coins grade about the same.  The PONTIFICATV is 5.99g, over a gram heavier than PONTIFICATVS, which is 4.93g.

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« Reply #277 on: March 15, 2015, 03:54:29 pm »

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« Reply #278 on: April 05, 2015, 10:37:16 am »

Happy Easter all.

I recently purchased a pleasant private medal produced for the 1900 Jubilee year.  No great shakes and not something that I usually dabble in, but I was taken by the date on the obverse which was given as "MDCD" rather than the MCM I would have expected.   I realize it technically gets to the same place (1000 + 500 + 400 (CD) = 1900) and I've seen a few other anomalous dates (eg IIII vs IV), but don't recall ever seeing this rendering.  Has anyone seen this before or can comment on why this might have been used?  Images are those of the seller.  Thanks.  
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« Reply #279 on: April 05, 2015, 10:51:53 am »

A Happy Easter you too and all.

Sam
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Sam Mansourati
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« Reply #280 on: April 05, 2015, 12:28:08 pm »

Happy Easter to all!

re: the Leo XIII medal...I believe that's the first time I've ever seen that particular ordering the Roman numerals for '1900'. 
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« Reply #281 on: April 05, 2015, 09:39:34 pm »

Thanks Pabst, glad that I'd not missed anything obvious.  

I did a perusal of Modesti's Leo XIII book and saw that this and a related silver medal (center only, no ring) are the only dates using the MDCD formula for any of the medals issued in 1900 and the Jubilee related medals of 1899.  While I did not count them, it appears that MDCCCC is the most commonly used date followed rather closely by MCM.  A handful use 1900.  This is a private issue and is not attributed/attributable per Modesti and it may just be the result of whim of the anonymous designer.  One suggestion is that the MDCD is nicely symmetrical with the ROMA on the other side of the design altho on examination it isn't quite balanced and seems a bit unnatural way for the date.  But the medal was inexpensive, fits into my Jubilee/Holy Year collection and with a curious rendering of the date ... what fun!

 Grin
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Pabst Geschichte
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« Reply #282 on: April 06, 2015, 05:06:42 am »

Check out this site on papal medals (official and unofficial).  I can see at least one other medal that shows a similar date-configuration.

http://numismatica-italiana.lamoneta.it/moneta/W-AE1123/20

You might also be able to find your medal somewhere among the listings.
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« Reply #283 on: April 06, 2015, 09:24:51 pm »

Thanks again Pabst.  That looks like a very useful site that I must peruse soon. 

The medallet (or whatever the correct term is) on the web site is in fact pictured on the same page as another I came across:  Mod 337 is a smaller, silver version of "my" medal (a Modesti 326) but without the outer ring and has the date rendered as MDCD.  It's undoubtedly by the same maker.  Interestingly,  Modesti 336 appears to be of the same overall design, probably of the same maker but uses the date 1900. I'd overlooked the medal you mentioned in haste. I'm not sure I totally understand the arrangement, but these smaller souvenir were basically grouped together with a number assigned but no individual discussion. A dozen or so of the smaller pieces were pictured on the page and only two of them (the silver one and the one you mention) have the odd date arrangement.  I will look into the site you mentioned to see if there are others.  I frankly hadn't looked carefully at the group listings of the smaller pieces.  I haven't spent much time with the Modesti Leo book since its not been of immediate interest so I need to correct that. 

By contrast. most larger pieces including the one I pictured (which is just under 39mm) have more complete listings, often a page or so each, altho I'm frankly not sure that the nature of mine is really much different than those in the group listing.  I did go thru the larger pieces more carefully and the results were as I mentioned before. 

At any rate, this is what makes collecting so much fun for me.  These older unofficials are a real bear to tie down, so the hunt goes on!  What fun...

 Grin

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« Reply #284 on: May 04, 2015, 09:21:12 am »

Thi is mine LEO XIII medal,

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-109758

LEO XIII (1878-1903), AE-30, The Good Shepherd. Extraordinary Medal, 1900. Patrignani 53.
avers: - LEO•XIII•PONTMAX•AN•XXV, Leo XIII bust left, JOHNSON under the bust
revers: - PASTOR-BONVS-ANIMAM-SVAM-DAT-PRO-OVIBVS-SVIS, "The Good Shepherd lays down his life for his sheep".
exe:-/-//--, diameter: 30mm, weight:11,85g, axes: h,
material: AE, mint: , artist: JOHNSON, date: 1900 A.D.,
ref: Patrignani 53.


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« Reply #285 on: May 04, 2015, 08:47:41 pm »

Nice medal Q.  Always thought that was an interesting rendering of the Good Shepherd.  There are several other interpretations on papal related medals and it would make an interesting side collection.

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« Reply #286 on: May 04, 2015, 11:57:35 pm »

Nice medal Q.  Always thought that was an interesting rendering of the Good Shepherd.  There are several other interpretations on papal related medals and it would make an interesting side collection.



 Thank you  Thumbs Up
 Q.
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« Reply #287 on: May 20, 2015, 09:29:03 am »

Pendant-style silverplated medallion I picked up on eBay recently, for the Holy Year 1875.  Interesting, in that this was only five years after Rome fell to Italian forces, and Bl. Pius IX had become a self-styled Prisoner in the Vatican.

Consequently, while a Holy Year was proclaimed, there were no public ceremonies.  No traditional Opening of the Porta Sancta and so on. Which makes this medal odd, in that on the reverse the Porta Sancta is clearly depicted as open.

Another unusual feature is the use of a regnal date.  While this is typical of official Papal medals, it is very unusual to see one on a (presumably) privately-produced medallion like this.  Yet here it is, A dot XXIX.  It looks almost as if the engraver copied a Papal 2-Lire piece (of 1866-1870) when he engraved the obverse die for this medallion.

29mm, 9.45g
References: Bartolotti XXIX-10; Berni 314
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« Reply #288 on: May 20, 2015, 10:54:57 am »

Nice example Pabst.  To cover the 1875 Jubilee, I have exactly the same piece, but unsilvered brass and with the mount (very well) removed.  My sense was this was just an "unofficial" souvenir to mark the occasion and utilized stock types that would be immediately recognized.  I hadn't really thought about it but the notion of using a coin as the model for the obverse makes sense.  I guess its not as clear to me that the door is open on the reverse; I thought the arch just was to symbolize the door and not have any further significance.  Also, I think I've seen the cross design as a seal on the closed door (albeit much smaller) but am not sure so need to poke around the references a bit.  Interesting in any case.  

Thanks for sharing!

edited to add: the 1933 and 1950 medals in my gallery are examples of what I was thinking of.  In both cases a holy door is shown with varying cross designs in place of the doors.  Didn't think either specifically indicated that the door was open but I certainly may well have misunderstood the design.  Need to go look at these more carefully.   Interesting!  
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« Reply #289 on: July 02, 2015, 04:03:42 pm »

Sunday last was the feast day of SS Peter and  Paul which has traditionally been the release/distribution date for the Vatican/Papal annual medal.  Haven't seen anything on the Vatican numismatic site, ebay italy, etc and wondered if anyone had heard anything/have any info about it.  Thanks! Grin
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« Reply #290 on: July 10, 2015, 05:34:49 pm »

News at last on the annual medal!

Today's issue of L'Osservatore Romano features a brief article about this year's medal:


Unfortunately, the image in the online pdf is horribly small, and looks pretty bad blown up, so here's a smaller version:


In a change, the obverse features the Francis's coat of arms, rather than his portrait.  The reverse shows the Ecstasy of St. Teresa.  There is already some grumbling on an Italian forum about how "Bergoglio continues the work of demolishing the papacy and also wanting to destroy a nearly unbroken tradition of six centuries".
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« Reply #291 on: July 10, 2015, 09:38:12 pm »

Thanks for posting the article Joe.  I gather this is for the 500th anniversary of St Teresa's birth.  Interesting about the distribution figures - gold is capped at a relatively small 150, only 50 of which are sold individually.  I wonder if additional medals are being held back for presentations, etc as they were used traditionally.  

An acquaintance contacted me a couple of days ago and a silver one should be on its way.  I only saw a rather poor pic today tho and also immediately noticed no pope.  Except for a couple of annuales issued during a Sede Vacante,  this is the first medal featuring the arms rather than a portrait so its not a surprise about the grumbling.  On the other hand, while not otherwise remarkable, the design is vastly superior to that used last year.   Grin
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« Reply #292 on: October 23, 2015, 09:34:03 am »

taking a look at eBay this morning, I saw this.  

Baiocco, 1848-R, ANN. III regnal date.  Quite distinct final 8 over 7 overdate

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« Reply #293 on: December 21, 2015, 10:54:10 pm »

A new official medal was issued by the Vatican to commemorate the opening of the "Extraordinary Holy Year of Mercy" on December 8th which will run until November 20 of next year. Not being catholic, I don't quite get the extraordinary holy years, but being an avid Vatican medal collector I ordered one which just arrived today. The scan is from the seller. 

The medal is 35mm available in both silver and bronze and limited to 20k of each (I think). The obverse has Francis praying before the holy door. The parable of the Good Samaritan is used for the reverse and recalls the year 7 annual medal of Pius XII (1945) using the same theme.

For me, the medals of this pope have ranged from workmanlike but uninspired to awful but this is probably the best of the lot so far. The smaller 35mm size makes the design seem a bit cramped but reasonably and traditionally executed, a significant theme that has prior ties, etc all make it, perhaps not a winner, but a welcome addition. And I really like holy year medals and 2025 (the next "regular" jubilee year) seems a long way away. Just MHO.  Grin
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« Reply #294 on: May 26, 2016, 10:17:56 am »

Unlisted variety in Muntoni!

1850-B, copper 5 Baiocchi type 2 (no wreath below arms), ANNO.V.

The overall type is Muntoni 79, but the problem there is that there is no ANNO.V. variety listed for Bologna in 1850.  The only 1850 Bologna listing for Muntoni 79 is ANN.V., though there is an ANNO.V. listed for 1851-B.  

My specimen, beyond the usual dinged rims of these massive (over 41 grams!) copper coins, is damaged by someone scraping off the numeral "5" on the reverse.  Small laminar peel to the right of the mintmark, below the 0 in the date.

Good old reliable--though often inaccurate--Cinagli (in Vitalini's supplement) does list the coin correctly as Cin 223.

other references:
Berman 3321
KM 1346
Craig 170
Eklund 991


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« Reply #295 on: February 03, 2017, 10:04:58 pm »

Vatican City: Portrait of Pope Francis Removed from Circulation Euro Coins

The 2016 Vatican annuale medal omitted the pope's image, substituting his coat of arms. To me this seemed to be a significant departure from the use of the portrait on both Vatican City and earlier papal coins/medals and it now appears that the 2017 coinage will follow suit. This is an excerpt from http://news.coinupdate.com/ which was shared by Whitmancoin on facebook and which offers an explanation:

The Treasury of Vatican City State (or the Holy See) announced on the 24th January that from March of this year, new 2017-dated coins and those thereafter issued will no longer carry the effigy of His Holiness Pope Francis. The decision was carried out at the behest of the pontiff, and revised designs without the pope’s portrait were submitted to the European Union’s official Journal, who published the details and images of the new circulation-type coins.

It was widely known that the pope has, since the start of his pontificate, been uncomfortable with his portrait on money, especially as he has campaigned for greater distribution of the world’s wealth among the poorest. The former Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio from Argentina was elected as the head of the Catholic Church and took the name of Pope Francis after the abdication of Pope Benedict XVI in March 2013. The first euro coins that included portraits of Pope Francis were issued in March 2014 and followed in 2015 and 2016. The coins included were 2- and 1-euro bimetallic coins, as well as 50-, 20-, 10-, 5-, 2-, and 1-cent coins.

The tradition of depicting the princes or heads of state of the Holy See on coinage has been in effect for centuries, as the possessions of the Vatican are recognised sovereign territory.
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« Reply #296 on: September 28, 2017, 10:32:56 am »

Another example of an overdate....found on eBay

Gregory XVI 1841 over 0, R, An XI

Muntoni 19g
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« Reply #297 on: December 31, 2017, 12:19:22 pm »

Happy New Year Papal collectors!

Saturday I received my last Christmas present. This is an exciting piece for me since I now I only need the year 2 example to have the annuales in silver complete from 2017 through Gregory XVI's reign. (scan is cropped from the seller's pix)  

This medal has a lettered edge which seems quite unusual for the medals I've encountered and I have only one other, a piece of Pius IX. The incscription is: "DONO DI SUA Sa GREGORIO XVI ALL' INGr CHEVILLET LI 24 LUGLIO 1844." Fiddling with Google Translates seems to mean something like "Gift of his Holiness Gregory XVI at the (his) arrival CHEVILLET LI July 24, 1844"  My assumption is that Chevillet Lia a personal name - the recipient of the medal perhaps - or is it something else? I've requested assistance from an Italian site in which I participate but I'd be grateful if anyone here has any insight as well.  Also, are these engraved edges really that uncommon or have I just had bad luck in finding them?  

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« Reply #298 on: December 31, 2017, 12:26:46 pm »

Great piece ... Thumbs Up

Q.

p.s.

Happy New year .... Wink Thumbs Up
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« Reply #299 on: January 01, 2018, 05:50:55 pm »

Quote from: quadrans on December 31, 2017, 12:26:46 pm
Great piece ... Thumbs Up

Q.

p.s.

Happy New year .... Wink Thumbs Up

TY Q.  And back at ya for the new year.
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