Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Please look at the RECENT ADDITIONS and PRICE REDUCTIONS at the top and bottom of the page. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES! Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Point your mouse to a coin in RECENT ADDITIONS or PRICE REDUCTIONS on this page to see the the price. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES!


FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: The Papal Corner 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Papal Corner  (Read 105784 times)
silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #150 on: June 12, 2011, 05:00:42 pm »

Thanks again! I do have 'Roma Resurgens', but as I didn't see my medal listed there, I guess I didn't read the text of the other Alexander VII medals! I have looked it up now for my notes.

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
Follibus Fanaticus
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 158


I love this forum!


« Reply #151 on: July 11, 2011, 10:56:31 am »



I recently bought a Quattrino of Ancona for the sede vacante of 1585, Muntoni 3, CNI 2.  The last sale record I have of this coin

is Kunst & Muntzen,  Sale Catalog of July 1979, No. 438.  It was advertised at 125 lire (sic) in very fine

Has anyone else seen anything from the vacancy of 1585, the one between Gregory 13 and Sixtus 5. 

Sixtus, a creation of Pius V, who detested Gregory(He was the last pope to have an official bastard, a son who served

quite honorably in the Swiss Guard.).  Gregory in turn detestedCardinal Felice Peretti, who never showed up at court

during Gregory's 13 year reign.  Peretti was elected Sixtus 5, because (1)no other cardinal had the vaguest idea who

he was (son of a vegetable grower) and (2) he looked so old that he might not even not survive his own coronation.

   

Follibus Faniticus
Logged

Follibus Fanaticus
silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #152 on: July 14, 2011, 01:06:41 am »

Great to see you're back on the board, sir! I've learnt much from Papal numismatics from this thread since I discovered it a couple of years ago, so for me it's great news to see you active again.

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #153 on: July 23, 2011, 03:42:14 pm »

Welcome back, John!

Unfortunately, I'm still working through the 17th Century with the sede vacante pieces myself.

In fact, the only sede vacante I have prior to 1669-1670 (between Clements IX and X) is one from the Long Conclave of 1268-71...

Oh, and best of luck with your book.  "Eagerly anticipated" is a fair enough phrase!  :-)

Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Sverige6
Guest
« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2011, 06:43:16 am »


I'm looking for identifications and info about a recent papal medal which seems not to common on the following thread if anyone could help me:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=73927.0
Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #155 on: December 30, 2011, 12:42:26 pm »

Just bought an interesting variety of Sampietrino (2½ Baiocchi) of Foligno.

Interesting since none of the usual references (Berman, KM, Muntoni, Eklund, Craig) mention it at all.

The mint-name is misspelled.  The usual spelling for this type is FVLIGNO.   However mine, though badly worn, is clearly spelled FVLIGNIO.  Was the engraver in too much of a hurry?  This variety also has an additional star under the date, which is also something Muntoni ordinarily would list, but does not.

Anyway, in order to find a listing for this, I had to go back to my old friend, Angelo Cinagli (Le Monete Dei Papi [1848]).  This variety IS listed there, as #457 under Pius VI.
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Follibus Fanaticus
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 158


I love this forum!


« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2012, 01:18:38 am »

I received a nice E-mail from Alex B, who has started to collect papal medals from the 16th to 18th Centuries.  He asked me to post my medals from that epoch, but I only have coins from those years.  I have used medals to fill the gap between 1870 and 1928.  I have a large silver medal issued from the Rome mint under Victor Emmanuel III.  That king, who wrote, yes wrote, CNI, resumed the annual papal medals in 1900.  The king issued for Leo XIII, Pius X, and Benedict XV, who issued no coins.  [Pius IX issued coins till 1870; Pius XI started his coinage in 1929].  I have a Benedict XV medal in silver from the Rome mint.

Official medals are usually gold [I have a gold John XXIII], silver. or copper with no lead mixed in.
 
In the United States, collectors of papal medals are rare; in Europe papal medals have been avidly collected for centuries.  Some auction catalogs of papal numismatics have as many pages devoted to medals as they have devoted to coins.  Europeans like them, because most popes liked art and demanded medals of great beauty. While official medals are of high quality and great beauty, many of the imitations struck for tourists are of low quality.  Buyer beware.  If  I can get a heavy "knock off," I use it as a paper weight.  Knock offs are mostly copper or lead, and they are mostly poured, not struck. [Note:  A few early --15th and 16th centuries were poured.]

Good tobe back,

Follibus Fanatacus
Logged

Follibus Fanaticus
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2012, 04:53:17 am »

I'm planning on posting a few of the medals I have to Alex B's page, but I have a question...

Follibus, you say that King Victor Emmanuel III started striking papal medals again in 1900, but what of the medals struck from 1871 - 1899?  There are annual papal medals for every year in that period. 

On whose authority were they struck?  Or are they post-1900 creations, backdated to cover the declining years of Pius IX and most of Leo XIII's pontificate?
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #158 on: February 29, 2012, 03:21:00 pm »

I just took a look at this webpage:
http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=5315

Now the Zeno.ru site is primarily devoted to coins of east Asia and the Islamic world (and as such, it is a great site for use in identifying these coins).  

What surprised me, though, was this particular section which shows twelve different Papal coins from the ultra rare AD 657-983 period.  Decent, high-quality color photographs too.  Definitely worth a look.
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
AlexB
IMPERATOR
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 638


The meek shall inherit the earth..so buy a meek


« Reply #159 on: March 01, 2012, 03:37:58 am »

Hi

I just saw this and I wondered if something you interested in?

If yes, ask me for details.

Brgds

Alex
Logged

'Never has so much been owed, to so many, by so few' - Mervyn King, Governor, Bank of England, 20th Oct 2009
stlnats
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


Release the puffin!


« Reply #160 on: November 24, 2012, 09:34:37 pm »

I just ran across this board and thought share one of my favorite coins.  The arms on the obverse just seem classic for the period to me.  Its a mezzo or half piastra of Innocent XI, Muntoni 53.

By way of introduction, I have a general papal/Vatican collection of both coins and medals since 1417.  Actually more medals than coins it seems.  A couple of areas of special interest to me: coins of 1650-1700, a silver medal of each pope since 1417, and a silver annual medal set since 1800 (still several to go on that one, esp the Sedes)


 Grin

Logged

stlnats
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


Release the puffin!


« Reply #161 on: November 24, 2012, 09:52:08 pm »

Another mezzo, this time dated to year 3 and 1693 of Innocent XII.  Muntoni 34. I always liked the imagery of this coin maybe because my understanding is that the symbolism of the pelican of self sacrifice was based on a misunderstanding of what the pelican was actually doing.  

 Grin
Logged

stlnats
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


Release the puffin!


« Reply #162 on: December 10, 2012, 08:26:50 am »

The unusually dated Sede Vacante of 155V was mentioned in an earlier post on this thread and I thought I'd share the example I've owned for a while.  I think its a variety of Muntoni 2 (at least it better matches the picture) and Berman 1030. The coin was mounted at some point, but seems to be otherwise intact and was a perfectly acceptable addition for me. I always found the dating to be a bit of a mystery since it clearly didn't save space and both forms of the date were used.  There were two Sedes in 1555, bookending the short reign of Marcellus II, but the references don't seem to distinguish the issues.  

    
Logged

Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #163 on: December 12, 2012, 08:52:26 am »

Nice coins, all.  I've always wondered myself why they included both "arabic" and Roman numerals in the date.


I'm not familiar with any reference that differentiates between the two Sede Vacantes of 1555--Cardinal Sforza was Camerlengo for both.

Or for that matter, the two sede vacantes of 1590 (Caetani was Camerlengo for both) or for 1605 (Aldobrandini for both).

Which is a shame.  But considering the very brief pontificates that precipitated these sede vacantes, it's hard to imagine the engravers having much time--or much desire--to prepare new dies, given that the Camerlengos were still the same person anyway.
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #164 on: December 22, 2012, 03:55:32 pm »

I haven't posted in a long time, but I thought this latest acquisition of mine deserved it. It is only my second piastra, a type of coin that has become kind of an obsession for me in the last few months! This one is actually quite rare, judging by Berman's valuation, so I'm very proud of it even though it has some marks on the Pope's face and traces of mounting.

INNOCEN XII PON M A II (signed HAMERANVS)
SEDEBIT IN PVLCHRITVDINE PACIS
Throne of St Peter, radiant, supported by angels
Berman 2231

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #165 on: December 22, 2012, 04:51:21 pm »

A wonderful example of Baroque art, in addition to being a great coin!
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #166 on: December 23, 2012, 02:45:17 am »

Thank you. I think so too. As I said, papal piastre have become a key feature in my coin collecting.

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
stlnats
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


Release the puffin!


« Reply #167 on: December 23, 2012, 07:51:16 am »

Really nice big baroque papal silvers are always a show stopper.  Congrats on a great pickup!

 Grin
Logged

silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #168 on: December 23, 2012, 03:57:33 pm »

Thank you, stl. It looks as if you have a great papal collection, of which I wouldn't mind seeing more! I've only just started here, and so far, I think I'll stick with piastre.

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
stlnats
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


Release the puffin!


« Reply #169 on: December 24, 2012, 12:27:33 am »

YW and TY silvernut.  

I've not imaged a lot of my baroque coins, but have a few images I can cobble together and share.  Here's one of my favs, another mezzo of Innocent XII.  It took me a couple of shots to get an acceptable (to me) example of the interesting type.  Many years ago, there was maybe the best of these I've seen in a Joe Lepczek auction and the late George Beach offered to bid for me.  My bid, which was several times the estimate and really more than I could afford at the time, was the underbidder.  Sigh.  I encountered a couple of others, lower grades with flan issues until I finally snagged this more than acceptable example a few years ago.  I never tire looking at this coin.  The ailing, aged pope is masterfully executed on the obverse and mated with the unique type of Noah's ark making landfall on Mt Ararat on the reverse.  Not quite as nice as the first I'd went after, but perfectly acceptable and about a third of my original bid so not a bad consolation prize.

Sorry the image isn't better, but its what I have at hand and hope I can image and share more after the holidays. 

 Grin

Logged

stlnats
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


Release the puffin!


« Reply #170 on: December 24, 2012, 12:44:56 am »

Getting late so the last for tonight.  Actually one of the first baroque coins I bought at one of the first coin shows my late wife and I attended together.  Nice Piastre of Innocent XII, with St Peter peaching on the reverse.  It was mounted at one point but that was softened a bit by the low price and the nice condition made it impossible to pass up.  It was a nice way to get introduced to this wonderful period of papal numismatic art.

BTW, the SV on both this and the previous coin indicate the work of the great papal engraver, Ferdinand de St Urbain.

Again apologies; not the best pic, but handy...

 Grin
Logged

silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #171 on: December 24, 2012, 03:08:25 am »

Great, thanks for sharing! I like the Noah's ark reverse very much, even though it's "only" a mezza piastra... There was one for sale at a recent Italian auction and I was very tempted to bid, but I thought the opening price was just above what I wanted to pay.

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
stlnats
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


Release the puffin!


« Reply #172 on: January 18, 2013, 10:14:21 am »

I was delighted to hear that I'd snagged a couple of new baroque coins in the CNG auction that ended earlier this week.  Baroque can be defined as various ways, but I consider it to be second half of the 17th century, ending with the death of Innocent XII in 1700.  In many ways this is the apex of traditional papal coinage, IMHO of course, with a wonderfully diverse and skillfully executed range of designs and themes.

For me, some of the most interesting coins were issued under Innocent XI, who reformed the coinage in July, 1684.  He standardized the designs of many of the coins and none is a better example than the testones issued from 1684 to his death in 1689.  All had the same basic design: papal coat of arms on the obverse, and the legend Melius Est Dare Quam Accipere ('tis better to give than to receive) on the reverse.  Within these parameters the die cutters had amazing latitude in executing their designs, and Muntoni's  La Monete Dei Papo e Degli Stati Pontifici lists no less than 90 unique types that were issued during these 5 years.  I have 25 or so thus far including the two from CNG.  What makes these particularly interesting to me is that they are dated on the obverse, above the coat of arms in tiny little numbers.  Only 5 of the 90 listings had obverse dates, and frankly I was unaware of this interesting dating until I saw these so I was willing to "reach" a bit for these.  The date sort of muddles up the obverse design which I'd guess is why it was used on only a few early types

Its always fun to learn something new about a series you thought you knew!

Scans are from CNG's listings.

 Grin
Logged

curtislclay
Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Online Online

Posts: 10775



« Reply #173 on: January 18, 2013, 10:30:29 am »

Attractive coins and interesting background information!

So the 90 different types consisted of just different frames around the rev. inscription?
Logged

Curtis Clay
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #174 on: January 18, 2013, 10:41:41 am »

that, and the manner in which the arms are displayed on the obverse....shape of the shield, the configuration of the ropes that are attached to the keys, etc.
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 Go Up Print 
FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: The Papal Corner « previous next »
Jump to:  

Recent Price Reductions in Forum's Shop


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 2.359 seconds with 71 queries.