Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Please look at the RECENT ADDITIONS and PRICE REDUCTIONS at the top and bottom of the page. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES! Welcome Guest. Please login or register. Point your mouse to a coin in RECENT ADDITIONS or PRICE REDUCTIONS on this page to see the the price. All items are guaranteed authentic for eternity! Thanks for supporting Forum with your PURCHASES!


FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: The Papal Corner 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 ... 13 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Papal Corner  (Read 105561 times)
Paleologo
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 191


nulla die sine nummo.


« Reply #125 on: November 13, 2009, 08:08:16 am »

Interesting medal. Doesn't look like an official Vatican issue but is of good quality anyway. I wonder if it can be related to some knightly order, due to the small crosses on reverse that don't look like a papal device to me.
Logged

Caminante, no hay camino
Se hace camino al andar
Invictus7
Guest
« Reply #126 on: November 22, 2009, 02:27:48 pm »

I've been purchasing papal bulla over the last few years whenever I found one at auction or elsewhere. I have about 12 right now and figured its probably a good time to learn more about them. Does anyone know of a good reference book on the topic?
Logged
Paleologo
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 191


nulla die sine nummo.


« Reply #127 on: November 23, 2009, 08:35:25 am »

Serafini has a comprehensive catalogue of bullae in the Vatican Coin Cabinet. It's an early XX c. book now hard to find and awfully expensive, but you may be able to find it in some library. Apart from that, I don't know.
Logged

Caminante, no hay camino
Se hace camino al andar
Invictus7
Guest
« Reply #128 on: November 24, 2009, 05:29:28 am »

Thanks, Paleologo.  I'll keep looking.

Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #129 on: April 22, 2010, 01:13:59 pm »

It's been awhile since anyone has posted on this thread, so I thought I'd put up some pictures of recent purchases. 

I picked up a couple of testoni (I don't know Italian...I guess this is the plural of 'testone') from an Italian dealer on eBay a couple of weeks ago.  None too pretty (in fact the first one is downright ugly), but I was amazed that neither one was pierced or mounted in any way.  Or at least as far as I can tell.

The first is Innocent XI, 1684 (Muntoni 79, Berman 2103, KM 433).  Badly scratched, but worth the $21 I paid for it.

The second one is Clement XII, 1735 (Muntoni 58, Berman 2634, KM 853).  I didn't have a portrait issue of Clement XII in any denomination.
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #130 on: April 22, 2010, 01:25:33 pm »

Another purchase came from a recent Rudolf Künker auction in Germany

Hitherto, the only coin of Julius II (1503-1513) I had was a tiny, nearly worn-out billon quattrino (Muntoni 47, Berman 582, Ryan 215:6) I bought from Renaissance Coin Company over 23 years ago.

The Künker auction featured several Giulii of Julius II, so I bid on one.  Much to my surprise and delight, I won!  It's Muntoni 30, Berman 574, Ryan 215:3.
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
fossie65
Guest
« Reply #131 on: June 11, 2010, 03:41:21 pm »

Hi,i have a coin with benedict 14th and the date 1756 on itvery similar to the coin in the last post,could anyone out there please tell me anything about the coin,and is there any value to it thanks very much.
Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #132 on: June 11, 2010, 05:39:39 pm »

What size is it?  About the size of a US Quarter?  Larger?   Does it have a portrait of the pope on one side?  Or a coat of arms?
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
fossie65
Guest
« Reply #133 on: June 12, 2010, 05:02:45 am »

about the size of a british ten pence,on one side is pope benedict 14th and the other a figure holding keys i suppose the keys to st peters gate ,and there is a halo around the figure.with a tower with a dome roof and a doorway on the right hand side of the coin ,thanks for your response.
Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #134 on: June 12, 2010, 07:37:15 am »

Sounds like you have a doppio guilio, or double-guilio coin, 1/5 of a Scudo. 

The actual value of it would depend on how worn it is, any damage (like a hole), etc.

A piece with an average amount of wear, and not holed or otherwise damaged--would probably fetch £15-20, more if the condition is better--on eBay.
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
fossie65
Guest
« Reply #135 on: June 12, 2010, 09:18:15 am »

thankyou very much for your time and effort .most helpfull.
Logged
silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #136 on: October 02, 2010, 11:07:40 am »

I thought I would revive this thread with my latest acquisition of a Papal medal, shown below. It is a medal of Innocentius XI ( Benedetto Odescalchi) who was Pope from 1676 to 1689. It is referenced as number 326 in Mazio's catalog.

I was somewhat baffled by the apparent pagan symbolism in it: the constellation of Leo flanked by Cancer and Virgo; imperial eagle above and lamp below, all surrounded by the legend DIVINÆ NVNCIA MENTIS ("Messenger of the Divine Mind"). Thankfully, I found an explanation in the Roma Resurgens catalog by Nathan Whitman:

"The somewhat arcane religious-humanistic conceit embodied on this medal is a typical product of a certain type of traditional learning that florished in seventeenth-century Rome. At the top the very Roman eagle represents the constellation Aquila in the northern heavens while at the bottom is the constellation crater from the southern hemisphere. In the center lies a section of the Zodiac: leo flanked by the signs of Cancer and Virgo. The key to the whole emblem is that, vertically, eagle, lion and cup comprise the coat of arms of Innocent's family, the Odescalchi. For the theologians of the papal court this conjunction of the new pope's heraldic devices with three constellations encompassing the entire celestial sphere was no fortunate accident but constituted an inherent proof of the universality of papal authority in the most literal sense. [...]"

I thought it was quite interesting!

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
Robert_Brenchley
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7311

Honi soit qui mal y pense.


WWW
« Reply #137 on: October 03, 2010, 03:27:29 pm »

And that, of course, was in a time when the sphere of Papal authority had been cut back significantly by the Reformation, and they were feeling it!
Logged

Robert Brenchley

My gallery: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10405
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
Arminius
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2413


carpe diem


WWW
« Reply #138 on: October 04, 2010, 03:42:57 pm »

Ahh, finally Reformation arrived in the dusty papal corner, freedom of belief!

An interesting chronogram dated medal:



Germany, Reformation 1517 Bicentenary Medal, engraver P. H. Müller, Nuremberg, 1717 AD.,
Silver Medal (32 mm / 14,00 g),
Obv.: MartInVs LVtherVs theoLogIae DoCt / M , Luther bust r., chronogram date - MIVLVVLIDCT ( 1000+1+5+50+5+5+50+1+500+100=1717 ) - in legends, engraver's initial M (P. H. Müller) in left base of bust.
Rev.: foLIVM eIVs neC DefLVet // IN MEMORIAM / IVBILÆI EVANGELICI / SECVNDI • D • 31 • OCT • / * , above and beneath palmtree, in background landscape with river.
Forster 807 ; coll. Whiting 226 ; Belli 1900 ; Schnell 158 ; ANS 1936.999.174 .

 angel
Logged

Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #139 on: November 21, 2010, 01:38:41 pm »

I just received a pretty inexpensive and somewhat beat-up Baiocco of Gubbio that I ordered from eBay.

It should be listed under Muntoni 453, but doesn't quite fit the varieties and subvarieties listed there.

For those who don't have Muntoni, here's a rundown of the text for Benedict XIV #453 (Vol. 3, p. 228):

453. Æ - Baiocco
D - Stemma piccolo a targa sagomata con fogliami, chavi tipo I con cordoni e fiocchi
    - (s) BENEDICTVS -- XIV•P•M•AN•X•
R - * VN BAIOCCO GVBBIO 1750 in corona c. s.
     SER, 548
Var. I - al R: (fleur) VN ... (CNI, 97)
Var. II - al R: VN ... (CNI, 94)
a) AN•X• /1751, al R, (fleur) VN ... (CNI, 113)
a, Var. I) A•X•/1751, al R: VN ... (CNI, 115)


Where my coin differs is that the obverse legend is more like the 453a Var. I, except that mine is dated 1750, not 1751.  Just the single letter "A" for ANNO, not "AN".

Also, on the reverse above "VN", there appears to be a dot...not a fleur-de-lis, and not a star. That detail is pretty worn (and only barely visible in the attached photo), so that could conceivably be a star that has worn down to look like a dot, though it is pretty circular...



Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #140 on: December 08, 2010, 06:11:57 am »

I picked up this medal from eBay...

It's clearly the same type as the official Anno I medal of Paul VI, but instead of being 44mm, my example illustrated here is 34mm.  Also the rims are much broader than the 44mm version.  Other than that, both medals share the same design, and both have the incuse silver fineness mark (985).  My medal weighs 15.3g.

I have looked in the 2007 Montenegro book, and Sadow-Sarrow The Coins and Medals of the Vatican (1977).  Neither list a 34mm version.    I don't have the DeLuca (what is the title?) book....

Does anyone have any information on this medal?  Why is there a 34mm version when 44mm seems to be the standard official medal module?
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #141 on: December 09, 2010, 01:59:31 am »

Nice medal, very finely toned. I don't know if you've checked the lamoneta.it catalog, but just in case, here's a link:
http://numismatica-italiana.lamoneta.it/cat/W-F211

It does show both a 50 mm and a 33 mm medals with the same design as yours. I'm not sure why they come in two sizes, but maybe someone in that forum can answer you.

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #142 on: December 09, 2010, 06:08:58 am »

Thanks for the information.  I didn't realize the la.moneta site covered medals in addition to coins!
Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Rugser
Deceased Member
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2611



« Reply #143 on: December 17, 2010, 04:45:45 pm »

Pope Gregorius XI _ bolognino _ Roma mint ?
Logged

Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #144 on: December 28, 2010, 05:48:02 pm »

Yes, that's exactly right.   It's a bolognino romano of Gregory XI, of the Rome mint.

Berman 208
Muntoni 9

Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #145 on: June 04, 2011, 09:16:41 am »

I've recently added two medals to my Papal collection of historical significance, and I wanted to share them here. The theme of both is Death, so I found it appropriate to show them together.

The first one reflects the well-known massacre of the huguenots in France in 1572, a tragic event happily commemorated by the newly elected Pope, who considered the killing as just punishment by God to the heretics. Indeed, the angel bearing the cross and the sword indicated that the papacy regarded the deaths as a divine act!

Bust left, with camauro and mozzetta.
GREGORIVS XIII PONT MAX AN I
VGONOTTORVM STRAGES 1572
Angel with cross and sword over dead and dying huguenots.
11.72 gr; 30 mm
Engraved by Federigo Parmense

The second medal was issued in 1657. I also shows an angel, this time triumphant over Death. It apparently refers to the end of the pestilence that raged Rome in 1656, although I would certainly welcome more information on it, as well as the translation of the legend!

Bust left, with camauro and mozzetta.
ALEXAN VII PONT MAX A III
POPVLVM RELIGIONE TVETVR
Angel leaning on a cross, holding open book, stepping on skeleton representing death.
21.34 gr; 34.3 mm
Engraved by Gaspare Morone

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
rennrad12020
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 492


« Reply #146 on: June 10, 2011, 06:48:33 pm »

     Beautiful medals! 

The second medal, Spink 1171, I would translate the legend: He protects/guards the people with religion


JPW

P.S. I think the Papal Corner should be a sticky thread.
Logged

rennrad12020
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 492


« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2011, 10:17:46 pm »

Here is a little more background information I tracked down in the Jesuit Buonanni's work,

Buonanni, Filippo. Numismata pontificum romanorum qvae a tempore Martini V usque ad annum M.DC.XCIX. vel authoritate publica, vel privato genio in lucem prodiere, ... Volume 2. Romae, 1699

Vol.2 p.469

Here is a loose translation of some of Buonanni’s commentary of your second medal and another reverse referring to the plague that struck Rome in 1656.  Ut umbra illius liberarentur (X and XI on the plate)

When a pestilence overtook the city at the beginning of the year, Alexander left for Naples, and was not persuaded by the populus to remain.  Quoting Ennius, as he was accustomed to do, Alexander said, non ponendos rumores ante salutem , don’t put common opinions before health. The pestilence ravaged the city, etc.

Perhaps the most salient point is that the angel holds a bridle in her right hand which Buonanni states is an allegory of religio =  the reins, fraenum, of the people, both mild and agreeable.

I would like to collect these medals someday myself. Interesting historically and usually rendered very artistically.  

JPW
Logged

silvernut
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 762


« Reply #148 on: June 11, 2011, 02:09:03 am »

Thank you for your translation and the useful information. In the Oxford Dictionary of Popes there is no mention of the plague, so the only pieces of background info I had found were online.

I agree these medals are very artistic. In fact, I understand engravers were 'official' artists and their work highly appreciated. I wanted to collect Papal coins at first, but as this is only a side collection for me (so far...), I found medals more affordable. And once I had the first one in hand, I was hooked!

Regards,
Ignasi
Logged
Pabst Geschichte
Praetorian
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


Vita est quoque brevis bibere vilis cervesia.


« Reply #149 on: June 12, 2011, 01:11:12 pm »

While your particular medal of Alexander VII isn't listed, there is another medal listed in Roma Resurgens: Papal Medals from the Age of the Baroque (a book I highly recommend). Here's the quote from page 97:

"No disease was more widespread or dreaded in seventeenth-century Europe than the plague.  Epidemics spread from London to Naples, and Rome was fortunate in being less frequently and less severely afflicted than many cities.  The worst came in May 1656 when an outbreak that had already devastated Naples suddenly appeared in Rome.  To his credit, Alexander handled the situation with deft administrative skill and real human sympathy.  He immediately left Castel Gandolfo upon hearing the news and returned to Rome, where he took measures to safeguard the city.  He organized a special health commission, restricted entry through the city gates, isolated quarters of the city, required registration of all cases, closed schools, screened confessionals, and established special hospitals, sanitariums, and burial places for the victims.  Despite these efforts and his own courage in taking to the streets to reassure the public, Rome lost 15,000 people, or one-eighth of its population, in a year's time.  The issuance of this medal [not yours, but the one cited in the book] on June 20, 1657 came just as the pestilence ended."

Your medal is listed as Mazio 255 in A Pictorial Catalogue of Papal Medals 1417-1942 as Struck by the Mint of Rome for the Vatican

Your Gregory XIII medal is listed as Mazio 110 in the same book.

Logged

Meus consultum vobis est ut salus imbibo graviter.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 ... 13 Go Up Print 
FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: The Papal Corner « previous next »
Jump to:  

Recent Price Reductions in Forum's Shop


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 2.048 seconds with 70 queries.