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Author Topic: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS  (Read 5915 times)

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Offline Heliodromus

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Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« on: August 14, 2005, 01:44:55 pm »
I just received this nice Romae Aeternae with the "eros" mintmark, and wanted to show it off!

Obv: CONST-ANTINVS AVG
Rev: ROMAE A-ETERNAE
Exe: R eros T   (aka R "squiggle C" T, per Helvetica)

Minted by Constantine I in Rome c. 320

The basic ROMAE AETERNAE type was first issued in 318-319 during the Rome P-R (Populi Romani?) in-field control mark, at the same time as SAECVLI FELICITAS and PAX PERPETVA, and seems to belong together with that group in terms of the rather generic feel-good legend probably chosen to reassure the public about the refound stability after the civil war between Constantine and Licinius which had occured c. 316 and been followed by the acclamation of the new Caesars Crispus, Constantine II and Licinius II in 317. The types would then be followed by BEATA TRANQVILLITAS echoing the same theme.

The ROMAE AETERNAE does serve the double purpose of also commemorating Constantine's 15th anniversary (quindecennalia) via the XV inscribed on the shield being held by Roma, and this occasion may perhaps have been the impetus for issuing these types celebrating the endless, happy and peaceful times.

The real interest of this coin is the famous "eros" mintmark - an odd occurence of what appears to be a greek script control mark appearing on a Roman coin (although perhaps not so odd when you consider that greek officina numbering was also in use). The eros mintmark, and lack of P-R in field, dates this particular coin to c. 320, the beginning of the VOT XX series, with the ROMAE AETERNAE type having outlived the other types that were issued alongside it.

I've put together the graphic below to illustrate the common interpretation of this control mark.

The initial ligature/squiggle is believed to be the two greek letters epsilon and rho, followed by an upstroke which isn't a letter in of itself, but rather transforms the entire ligature into the letter omega. The "C" following the ligature is the greek letter sigma. The entire mark therefore reads epsilon rho omega sigma spelling eros (note greek e-r-o-s phonetic spelling).

Now we might stop there and just consider it as eros (used for whatever unknown reason), or you can interpret it further and note that eros (love) in latin is "amor", and that amor spelt backwards is roma - Rome! Eros thus becomes a secret word for Rome.

Ben



Offline mauseus

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2005, 04:04:53 pm »
Hi,

Not a bad theory at all. In Rome, opposite the colloseum there is the temple of Roma and it backs directly on to the temple of Venus and again the ROMA - AMOR theory has been postulated for their juxtaposition.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/lateromancoinage/temples.html
Regards,
Mauseus


Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2005, 10:52:21 pm »
Thanks, Kevin!

Following up on Mauseus's connection to the temple(s) of Venus & Roma, I've discovered that the temple, originally built by Hadrian was specifically dedicated to Romae Aeternae, and for Venus Felix, the goddess of love (vs one of Venus's other egos). This does seem to confirm not only the eros-roma association, but also the specific connection with Romae Aeternae. It also appears therefore that this type pays homage to (at least) one of the city's pagan deities rather than merely being a well wish for the city/empire.

Knowing that this was a combined temple seems also to clarify the meaning of Maxentius's Conserv(atores) Vrb Svae... "Conserving THEIR city" apparently referring to Venus & Roma (Maxentius repaired & partly rebuilt the temple as part of his building program, and the type depicts Roma hence implicitly referring to the joint temple), although it's not clear who's doing the conserving - Maxentius or Venus & Roma.

Ben

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2005, 03:12:17 pm »
       Surely CONSERVATORES VRBIS SVAE refers to the EMPERORS, Maxentius, Constantine, and Maximian, not the presumed divine occupiers of the temple depicted, as "Preservers of Their City"?
       I am not convinced by the EPWC = AMOR = Roma interpretation of this mintmark, and the supposed connection with the temple of Roma and Venus.  I am not dismissing it either, but before accepting it as probable I would need more evidence that this play on words was current in ancient Rome and that such a pun was not out of place in a mintmark.
   
Curtis Clay

Offline Rugser

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2005, 04:57:49 pm »
In his program of the jobs of urbanistic restructuring Maxentius also built that that is known today as Basilica of Maxentius
From this Basilica, built adjoining to the temple in Rome, it was possible to see the pediment of the temple of Rome and the statue of Rome as we see  to us on the coins. 
ser

Offline Jochen

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2005, 05:16:50 pm »
In the web I have found this Palindrome:
Roma tibi subito motibus ibit amor.  It should be from Quintillian. It shows that these kind of wordgames was known to the ancients.

And here some more from Wikipedia:
Si bene te tua laus taxat, sua laute tenebis (Plinius)
Sole medere, pede ede, perede melos (Sidonius Apollinaris 430-479)

Best regards

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2005, 05:25:27 pm »
Curtis,

I assume that Maxentius is casting himself in the active role of conservator since the type is understood to be referring to his building program, so the question is who the referrents (which have to be plural) of "their" are...  If this was referring to some collective ownership of the city, then the people of Rome (PR) would seem appropriate, but then presumably we'd have "your city" or "our city", or simply "the city". Given that we have the more pointed "their" which would seem to demand a pre-designated referrent, it seems that the depicted Roma (& Venus) are more likely rather than the augusti which are only named individually and who's ownership of the city would seem to detract from the message of public good which presumably was the propaganda purpose of the type. This therefore gives us "[Maxentius] conserving [Roma & Venus's] city", which doesn't seem unreasonable given the prominence of the temple (largest in Rome, located beside the Colosseum) and the depicted co-resident deity of Roma! Hardly a water-tight argument, of course, but there does seem to be some logic to it!

The eros=amor<=>roma interpretation would certainly stand on better ground with additional support, but the pairing of Venus Felix and Romae Aeternae does seem to lend credence to it, and the mirror symmetry of the temple may well reflect the symmetry of amor-roma. It'd be interesting to know if there was any precedent for the pairing of Venus & Roma prior to Hadrian's building of this temple.

It can also be noted that Romae Aeternae's co-resident deity, Venus, was the mother of Eros, which would make the eros=amor<=>roma pun all the more attractive!

Ben

Offline slokind

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2005, 05:59:37 pm »
Two nagging details have occurred to me:
*That SVAE agreeing with VRBIS guarantees that they are observing the difference between urbs sua, the grammatical subject's own city, and urbs eorum, the city of some other entities (such as Venus and Eros) known in context.  And Roma, the second divinity honored, cannot be the possessor of Roma, not verbally.  Urbs sua in this legend must be the emperors' own city.  At least that's what I taught in Latin I years ago:
--Pirata militibus tubas eorum dedit.
--Pirata nautis naves suas dedit.
If there is anything that is plain fun, it is making "**** and Jane" Latin sentences for grammatical instruction.
*That Venus Felix may not be the aspect of Venus that is the mother of Eros / Cupido;   what precisely was the cult of Venus Felix?
As for the word play, it strikes me, as Jochen's examples suggest, as perfectly characteristic of the period.
I see that ROMA <> AMOR is perfectly obvious, but, then, why use the Greek?  As Curtis says, we need some poem or joke to clinch it.  And, of course, that temple is NOT dedicated to Cupid or to Eros.  Was any?
Pat L.
P.S. I just noticed that some dirty-minded software, without informing me, changed the names of beginning Reader children into falsely modest vulgarity.  I have emended my perfectly chaste post, placing the title of the book in quotation marks, in the hope that the software will "know" that it made a mistake.  The mistake was made by the persons that wrote and purchased that software.  I do not think that the use of the nickname for Richard as street talk for the membrum virile is funny, and substituting baby talk for it is even worse.  P.L.
P.P.S.  I had to enter asterisks.  I cannot tolerate the usage 'thingy' over my signature.

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2005, 06:16:21 pm »
Ben,
     Except as soon as Maxentius broke with Maximianus and Constantine, he reverted to CONSERVATOR VRBIS SVAE, the singular, obviously applying to HIMSELF!  RIC Rome 166, 177, 187; Ostia 3.
     Moreover, Maxentius, Maximian, and Constantine call themselves CONSERVATORES KART SVAE, "Preservers of their Carthage", RIC Carthage 59-61.  CONSERVATORES here cannot apply to any gods of Carthage.
     Finally, Roma and Venus are female, so the legend, if it applied to them, would have to be CONSERVATRICES VRB SVAE.  CONSERVATORES is masculine, so can only apply to the three emperors.

Jochen,
      Nice find!  So palindromes were known in Rome, and in particular Roma and Amor.
      However, if you translate Amor into Greek, do you still preserve the possible reference to Roma?  And is that sort of wordplay likely to find its way into a mintmark?
     Not impossible, I think, but not certain either!
     Can you translate those Latin palindromes for us too?
Curtis Clay

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2005, 06:41:32 pm »
Thanks, Curtis. So together with Pat's observation, it seems there's no room for ambiguity in the legend at all, which is nice to know. I assume that it's still meant to be the temple of Roma & Venus that's depicted on the Conserv Vrb Svae type though, given that it shows Roma inside, and that this temple is known to have been repaired by Maxentius.

It does seem slightly generous of Maxentius to be crediting Maximianus and Constantine with his building efforts, since it seems doubtful that either actually contributed (did Maximianus even have any territory / tax base to call his own at that time?), and Maxentius was very unpopular for the taxes he was levying that DID help pay for it!

Ben

Offline Gert

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2005, 06:52:07 pm »
The wordplay on ROMA and AMOR can also be found in Vergil's Aenid: Aeneas says to Dido in 4.347 that the Lycean oracle commands him to go to the land of his 'amor', his 'patria' [haec patria est]. This country of course being Roma. This has to be more than mere coincidence.

Regards
Gert


Offline Jochen

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2005, 07:01:01 pm »
I will try (a bit rude!):

Roma tibi subito motibus ibit amor:
Rome, your love will suddenly collapse in disturbances (Should be from Sidonius Apollinaris too!)

Si bene te tua laus taxat, sua laute tenebis:
If you consider yourself praiseworthy, you will consider others praiseworthy too.

Sole medere, pede ede, perede melos:
Heal by the sun, make appetite by walking, publizise your works.

No guarantee for absolute correctness!

Hi Gert, very nice indeed!

Best regards

Offline *Alex

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2005, 08:31:40 pm »
Acrostics were indeed well known to the Romans. The Sybylline Prophecies were acrostics, a fact which made Cicero suspect they were written by humans. Also a Roman poet, Quintus Ennius, who died in 169 BC, wrote a poem in which the first letters of each line spelled out, 'Quae Q. Ennius fecit' (Q. Ennius made this').

An amazing acrostic was discovered during archealogical digs both at Pompeii and at Cirencester in England. More than just an acrostic, it combines the elements of a word square and a palindrome. It can be read from right to left, left to right, upwards and downwards!

SATOR
AREPO
TENET
OPERA
ROTAS

Translated, it reads: The sower, Arepo, guides the wheels with care.

Tony Augarde, in The Oxford Guide to Word Games, suggests that "The SATOR acrostic may have been used as a charm or a way for persecuted Christians to recognise one another."

Even more remarkable, apart from the fact that the word TENET forms a central cross, all the letters can be rearranged to form the following shape:


               P
               A
               T
               E
               R
P A T E R N O S T E R
              O
              S
              T
              E
              R

The remaining two A's and O's can then be placed at the four ends of the cross to represent Alpha (the beginning) and Omega (the end). As if that isn't intriguing enough, the letters can also be arranged into a prayer: 'Oro Te, Pater; oro Te , Pater; sanas' ('I pray to Thee, Father; I pray to Thee, Father; Thou healest').

All very interesting.

Alex.





Offline Jochen

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2005, 07:20:42 pm »
Hi!

Here an additum I have found in the German forum. It is an ancient Roman Bronze fibula from the Danubian range. It shows the name ROMA as ligation. The O is the edge of the fibula and M is superposed to the A. If you look at the fibula from behind you see it as AMOR! I think there are relations to our EPOC! Here we see a similar overlay of letters!

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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2005, 09:40:24 pm »
Very interesting, Jochen!

The dual nature of the "O" is very similar to that of the omega of the EROS mintmark, and it certainly shows that they liked to play games with ligatures, especially Roma!

Here's what one of them looks like flipped left-right (same as the letters would appear from behind).

Which forum did you find this on? Was there any other information given about them?

Ben

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2005, 10:56:42 pm »
    Interesting, but I think of little relevance to our mintmark.
    All the brooch proves is that the Romans liked ligatures.  We already knew that from Republican coins, fifth-cent. coins, and, expanding to the Greek world too, from the innumerable monograms on Hellenistic coins.
    Being an open-work brooch, it COULD have been read as AMOR from the back, as Ben has shown, yet in daily use it would not have been so read, since the pin is firmly fastened to the back, allowing only ROMA to be read when the piece was worn!
    So the brooch does not add to the knowledge we already have, that the Romans knew that ROMA spelled backwards was AMOR.
    Nor of course does it prove that the Romans took the game one step further, and considered EPWC to be a code for ROMA, since it was Greek for AMOR!
Curtis Clay

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2005, 08:36:50 am »
Curtis,
I think this fibula does at least add support to the (already fairly compelling) interpretation of the mintmark as a ligature of Eros, especially since it also has letters appearing as part of each other  (A as part of M) as well in multiple roles (O). Without an example such as this, it might be easier to argue against the interpretation of the epsilon-rho portion of the MM ligature also being an omega.

Given that the ROMA-AMOR play was also known to/used by the Romans (perhaps as reflected by the Roma-Venus temple in addition to the literary sources), it seems that the only piece missing in the MM theory is whether Eros was meant to be interpreted mainly/only directly as Eros or as a play on Amor. To my mind there are two reasons to prefer the Eros=Amor interpretation:

1) The Roma-Amor connection, and Romae Aeternae (per Hadrian's dedication) connection to the Roma-Venus temple. It makes sense for the MM to refer to Amor!

2) A reference to Eros intended directly seems quite out of place. First, why have a name in Greek in a Latin speaking city ... it's begging to be translated into Latin! Secondly, from what we know about Constantine, it doesn't seem that he would have embraced Eros's association with out of control crazy love and sexual desire. Constantine himself was from an early age inclined towards monogamy and sexual restraint (per his early first marriage and praise for such qualities in a panegyric), and later in life c. 326** enacted extraordinarily severe laws (per the theodosian code) against sexual crimes of passion - he ordered that men who abducted and raped girls be burnt alive with no recourse to appeal, and that girls who willingly submitted to such (i.e. we're not really talking about rape) would meet the same end; those who were unwilling but didn't protest would be disinherited. Nurses who aided in such "abductions" would have molten lead poured into their mouth!

Ben

** "Constantine and the Christain Empire" by Charles Odahl (published last year), p204 & end notes lists these laws of Constantine and the sources for them, as well as placing them in context of his growing Christian beliefs. c. 320 (around the time of the Eros mintmark) he had also repealed the Augustan penalties against unmarried men & women, seemingly based on the desirability of the celibate life.

Offline Tom Mullally

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2005, 10:22:22 pm »
OK, ROMA spelled backwards is AMOR, I think we've established that.  I think it's a stretch to think that any time the word ROMA is seen by itself, then we can conclude that they also meant to signify their love of Rome.

Tom
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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2005, 01:27:10 am »
Hi,

While on holiday I was reading a book that mentions Julius Caesar in "Gallic Wars" described how he wrote Latin messages in Greek letters so if the messages were intercepted, they would not be understood by the enemy.  Unfortunately, I don't have access to the book until Thursday so am unable give the exact quote.

Darcy

Offline cscoppa

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Re: Constantine I Romae Aeternae - EROS
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2005, 10:22:38 pm »
Also remember that the code lettering on the Maximian & Diocletian coins shows the Latin words for the PATRONS spelled with Greek lettering an unusual combination. Codes are strange things and may not follow "normal" thinking.
Chip

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