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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: Mameluk Coinage 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Mameluk Coinage  (Read 4712 times)
lv88
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« on: June 06, 2005, 02:49:10 pm »

Hi Everyone,

Could you provide me with common books that are used as reference to Mameluk coins? What catalogues ? Any internet sites that deal with Mameluk history and coinage ?

Levon
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2005, 03:04:51 pm »

Hi Levon

The common reference for Mamluk coins is called "The coinage of the Mamluk Sultans of Egypt and Syria" by Balog. The book is extremly rare and very expensive.

There are some cheaper reprints available but the image quality is of course very bad. I bought an original at Spink in London for about 700 Dollars. Way too much but it was probably the only one around here in the UK.

For the History on the Mamluk Empire go here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk

For some coins go here
http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=880
and here
http://icg.hotchili.info/ (click Link and Resources, then Islamic Coins Collection, then scroll down to Coins of the Mamluk Empire or something)

I hope this helps

Best wishes,
Burak
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lv88
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2005, 03:28:54 pm »

Thanks, helps a bit.

I might actually be writing an article on a small hoard of Mameluk and Armenian coins. So, I needed to know what was standart book on Mameluk coins. Hope I might ask your help on catalogue identification of certain coins. The Hoard is posted on Zeno.

Best,
Levon
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2005, 03:45:31 pm »

Can you provide a link. I couldnt find it there. I looked for Special Project but I couldnt see it there.

Are mainly looking at Pseudo Armenian issues by the Mamluks?

Burak
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lv88
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2005, 05:03:19 pm »

Hi Burak,

The Hoard is not listed in the Special Projects. I actually found out about the hoard through a correspondance with hmk (Haroon).

The interesting thing was the location of the find, Pakistan, and is interesting to find coins that far from their origin. It contained 12 Mameluk and 4 Armenian coins( 2 later takvorins, and 2 takvorins bearing Arabic surcharge)

I was going to ask about identification a bit later( If you have time), but, here are the links:
 
1. http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=2103&cat=1240&page=1
2. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3953
3. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3965
4. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3952
5. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3958
6. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3959
7. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3957
8. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3954
9. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3956
10. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3961
11. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3963
12. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3955
13. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3962
14. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3964
15. http://zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=3960
16. http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=2364&cat=1240&page=1

I lost you here Burak:

 
Can you provide a link. I couldnt find it there. I looked for Special Project but I couldnt see it there.

Are mainly looking at Pseudo Armenian issues by the Mamluks?

Burak

If you are referring to Post Roupenian coins, with pseudo-Armenian legends, no these werent in the hoard, but these have not been attributed to anyone, though it is unlikely that it was struck my Mamelukes, and here is my reasoning and theory regarding them:

When examined, these coins bear resemblance to the coppers of Gosdantin IV, but their grammatical errors, and other minute details make them distinct. Compare the inscriptions of coins of Gosdantin IV to these coins in Bedoukian's CCA. One has to wonder why would the imitations after the fall of the kingdom resemble coins of a ruler previous to the last king, Levon V. Perhaps lack of skilled die makers or popularity with style of equestrian and lion design and unpopularity of King Levon V and similarity of his coins to Cypriot and Latin style issues was the reason Gosdantin IV's design was chosen.
          As for the coins, it can be certain to have been issued by Armenians after the fall of Sis, because none of the neighbors had reason to imitate coins of a kingdom that was overrun, or all but overrun. One theory might be that it was issued by a certain Prince Gosdantin who ruled in mountaneous Cilicia after the fall of Sis, I believe starting 1376. ( I saw an online source on this somwhere) This would agree with the the reason why the name Gosdantin was attempted to be copied.
 

Also, the Emir of Aleppo, who invaded Armenia in 1360, struck coins with all arabic design and script from Tarsus, in Armenia in the name of the sultan of Egypt, so that might be scrapped.

Best,
Levon

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Istinpolin
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2005, 11:21:54 am »

Hi Levon

Yes, I remember these coins. A big discussion was going on about them quite some time ago. The place was the ICG (Islamic Coins Group). The discussion was between Fawzan Barrage (in my eyes an expert of Mamluk, Umayyad coins etc) and Haroon Tareen. Let me know if I can be of any help.

There are some coins of the Mamluks imitating Armenian coins I think, but I am not an expert in this field.

Best wishes,
Burak
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lv88
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2005, 08:54:24 am »

Hi Burak,

Also, I was wondering if you can provide a link to the discussion between Fawzan and Haroon, I might find it useful.

For now, the paper is going slowly, I have lots of other work. At this point, I have finished the historical background, and almost finished comments on the hoard.

In a little bit I hope to ask you for help specifically for attribution.



There are some coins of the Mamluks imitating Armenian coins I think, but I am not an expert in this field.


Interesting, I have never heard of these.  What is mentioned about Mamluk and Armenian related coins in Balog ?

I am aware of the following issues:

-Surcharge takvorins, with host coins of Oshin, and Levon IV. ( Recently I saw online auctions and databases which further identified surcharge takvorins to Levon III and Gosdantin III, though this cannot be confirmed.)

-Coins struck in Tarsus by the Emir of Aleppo in the Name of the Sultan of Egypt.


Levon

 





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Istinpolin
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2005, 09:56:05 am »

Hi Levon

Sorry for my ignorance. Like I said I am no expert on this field, but consulting my Balog I saw that these coins are not imitations but rather Armenian Trams overstruck. This is what Balog says:

"Around the middle of the nineteenth Century, numismatists noticed the existance of Armenian silver-coins, overstruck with an Arabic legend. [...] ...they were already correctly attributed to al-Nasir Muhammad. In 714-715AH al-Nasir Muhammad attacked and invaded Cicilia, a second invasion followed in 716AH. "

Then in 721AH the Armenian endured an attack by the Mongols but right after it was attacked by the Mamluks again and in 722AH and 723AH Sis fell to the Mamluks, they plundered the treasury of Leon IV and an annual tribute of 1.2 Million Trams was imposed.

So Balog presents couple of coins in his book under number 213
AR Tram of Oshin
AR Tram of Levon IV
AR Tram (kings name is illegible)

(Balog P. (1964), The Coinage of the Mamluk Sultans of Egypt and Syria, The American Numismatic Society, New York, page 146)

So this was the Mamluks. Whats more interesting if of course the coins minted by the Umayyad Empire. Like Arab-Byzantine there are also Arab-Armenian coins.

Stephen Album in his check list does mention them. There are 2 extremly rare pieces.
#E97
In the name of Muhammad (unidentified), AR zuzun
He says: With Arabic muhammad before bust, waf in margin. The denomination zwzwn (Aramaic for Drachm) appears on the reverse where the mint signature is normally placed, and has been miscontrued as Zouzan, a locality in Khorasan. Nikitin believes that the type dates to circa 80AH.

#F97
AR zuzun, similar but Pahlavi MHMT before bust, Arabic muhammad in margin.

These are series of early Islamic coins types struck by the standard of the Sassanian Empire. Some coins have the word ARM and ARMAN which is referrig to Armenia, consistent with known find posts.

(Album S. (1998), A Checklist of Islamic Coins, Stephen Album, Santa Rosa, page 19)


Looking at Ottoman Coins minted in Yerevan (Modern Armenia) we can see this

In Turkish Yerevan is Revan, and on Ottoman coins is was written as Rwan

These are the coins minted there

982AH Murad III Dirhem
1003AH Mehmet III Sahi
1115AH Ahmet III, Esrefi, Abasi, Sahi


I hope this will help you further. This was real hard work

Best wishes,
Burak
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lv88
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2005, 03:05:44 pm »

Hi Burak,

Thank you for the plentiful references, you have greatly increased my knowledge of the topic Burak.

So this was the Mamluks. Whats more interesting if of course the coins minted by the Umayyad Empire. Like Arab-Byzantine there are also Arab-Armenian coins.


I hope this will help you further. This was real hard work


This helps a lot. Thanks    Smiley
Interestingly, right before I read your post, I saw the following on Zeno:

http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=16942&cat=611

Right on time for a discussion : ))

So basically, these were struck by the earliest of caliphs (Ummayyads), referring in script to demonination of drachm and struck in Arm,or the mint of Armenia, but were not struck by Armenians themselves ? Also, is the script used Arabic or Persian ?

Best,
Levon

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Istinpolin
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2005, 03:27:03 pm »

Hi Levon

Well Zeno #16942 is basically an Armenian local imitation of Sassanid coinage. Then the local Arabs have started to imitate coins that were issued later with Arm, Arman, or Inm which were Sassanid coins minted in Armenia. Then, the Arab-Sassanid coins emerged from that.

This is really hard to explain because you also need to know the history. We are talking about the break of pre islamic middle east and the emerge of Islam. This is exactly this time. When we say Arab-Byzantine, Arab-Sassanid, Arab-Armenia, Arab-Bukhara etc we mean the local Arabs in this region. These are not necessarily Umayyad. It is very complicated. Arabs lived there before Islam too, you know, and they were Arabs too, just not muslims. When Prophet Muhammad left Mecca in 623AD then it was 0AH for the Muslims. The Umayyads developed very fast and grew very fast. Back then comunities came together without fighting. Some coins of the Umayyad Empire can be attributed as Arab-Byzantine or Arab-Sassanid if it bears the picture or name of Abd al Malik on them. The Umayyad Caliphate was an empire at first, then it bacame the Caliphate. In about 60 to 70 AH the coin reform was adopted and the Umayyad Empire were minting their own coins. All copper coins though are anonymous whereas gold and silver had mints and rulers names on them. So in about 60AH the reform had started. So we are talking about these 60 years.

What happened there. Well, the Umayyad Empire was growing, no one really knows who actually minted Arab-Armenian coins but they were Arabs who imitated the local coinage and after a couple decades they became part of the Umayyad Empire.

Best wishes,
Burak
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Nassif
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2005, 03:50:55 pm »

 :DDear friends;
you look interested in mamluk and armenian coinage...i have important collection[with a lot of unlisted coins...preparing my web site ...],and i have some mamluk armenian coins;here one.
Balog 213 unlisted variant
Unfortunately i can't put the arabic traslation,because the mail will not accept it[no arabic font...]
all the bests
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lv88
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2005, 04:52:59 pm »

Hello Nasif,

I believe the inscription is something like this:

Reverse (name side) (The mint and date appeared on this side)

ﺍﻟﺳﻟﻃﺎﻥﺍﻟﻣﻟﻙﺍﻟﻧﺎﺻﺭ
ﻧﺎﺻﺭﺍﻟﺪﻧﻳﺎﻭﺍﻟﺪﻳﻥﻣﺣﻣﺪ
ﺑﻥﺍﻟﻣﻟﻙﺍﻟﻣﻧﺻﻭﺭ
ﻗﻼﻭﻥ


(The Sultan The King The Helper
Helper of the World and the Faith Muhammad
Son of The king The conqueror
Qalaun)

Obverse (Kalima side)


ﻻﺍﻟﻪﺍﻻﺍﷲ
ﻣﺣﻣﺩﺭﺳﻭﻝﺍﷲ
ﺍﺭﺳﻟﻪﺑﺎﻟﻬﺩﺍﺉ

(There is no God but Allah
Muhammad is Messenger of Allah
Whom He (Allah) sent with guidance)



Yours is an interesting specimen. Although little of the Armenian host survives, it is rare to see well defined overstrike. My specimen shows more host than overstrike.

On you coin, on the obverse ( That is once the coin was overstruck) I see the following armenian " ... ՔՆ Ի Ս..." This would have been the reverse of the host Armenian coin and the full inscription would state "Struck in the city of Sis."

Regards,
Levon

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