Author Topic: Toronto Group (Read 29905 times)

esnible · « **Reply #50 on:** July 04, 2004, 09:25:29 am »

I believe Alan's booklet is available for download. Go to

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoinForgeryDiscussionList/files/

and choose "The Toronto Classical Coin Forgeries". There is also a 2nd edition in that directory, but as I recall the additional material was written by someone else.

(The URL may only be valid to CFDL members. Anyone wishing a copy of either edition can email me (esnible@acm.org) and I will forward a copy.)

whitetd49 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 16, 2004, 12:17:02 pm »

So that nobody duplicates the effort, I have downloaded all the pictures for this auction. Will post in Forgeries section, all 44 fakes!

whitetd49 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 16, 2004, 12:48:40 pm »

Odd, this one doesn't look too bad. Letters are a little soft. He doesn't actually have a real one here? Please confirm before I post it in Forgeries.

Arles · « **Reply #53 on:** July 16, 2004, 04:01:35 pm »

Wow, ebay is getting faster, they`re gone already.

whitetd49 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 21, 2004, 09:39:18 am »

Any opinions on the Caracalla denarius?

whitetd49 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 21, 2004, 11:03:12 am »

OK, about half of the "jewunder" Toronto Group fakes have been posted, taking a break!

whitetd49 · « **Reply #56 on:** July 21, 2004, 01:32:13 pm »

They have all been uploaded! There is now a good sample of Roman Imperial fakes. Some of these have been appearing again and again and....

maridvnvm · « **Reply #57 on:** August 18, 2004, 04:53:02 am »

All,
Here is another Toronto group seller that is going to catch some of the unwary.

[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

There are several quite good looking coins here that are FAKE. Several are matches to coins in the Fakes Board from previous Troronto Group sellers.

I have downloaded the pics and will post to the Fakes Baord but have included a couple here for you to see and save you figuring it out yourself.

Coin 1 - A Nero den. from the Fakes Board

And now a much better version by this seller.

Regards,
Martin

maridvnvm · « **Reply #58 on:** August 18, 2004, 05:04:20 am »

I have looked at all the coins that this guy has for sale and there ar a couple that I am not sure are Fake and may just be coins that he is claiming to own and just has the images. What do you think?

Here is a Vespasian den that is in very nice style and if it is fake then I am starting to worry.

Martin

AlexB · « **Reply #59 on:** August 18, 2004, 05:12:36 am »

I am thinking set up a fake ebay account. Then buy all the coins online with clinching bids (really high ones) - send a 'personal' cheque which is actually an envelope with just a piece of paper inside saying 'Loser'.

At least will stop others from being able to buy them and anoy the hell out of the seller. Especially if you do it 3 or 4 times. Prehaps we should have a rotor?

maridvnvm · « **Reply #60 on:** August 18, 2004, 05:16:05 am »

Here is one that makes me think that thay are either getting better at this game or are just making images of the coin that they are taking the casts from.

The first coin appeared in the Fakes Board as a suspected fake:-

The second coin is for sale with the above seller and is a die match but of much better quality

Martin

David Atherton · « **Reply #61 on:** August 18, 2004, 05:28:14 am »

Well, if that Vespasian's a fake then I'm worried too!

It would certainly fool me.

Then again he could be just using the image and doesn't own the coin at all.

I'm thinking he's just using the image because I'm pretty sure I've seen that same coin before. I just can't recall where.

maridvnvm · « **Reply #62 on:** August 18, 2004, 06:34:40 am »

Have a look at these three Domitians.

Coin 1
From this seller.

Previously reported example -

The current example would have me fooled if I wasn't already suspicious!

Coin 2
From this seller.

Previously reported example -

Coin 3

I find looking at some of these quite scary!

Martin

maridvnvm · « **Reply #63 on:** August 18, 2004, 06:48:26 am »

I have posted the coins to the Fake Reports but have held back on the Vespasian Judea Capta for the moment.

Should I add it and not that it is suspected or leave it out?

Regards,
Martin

David Atherton · « **Reply #64 on:** August 18, 2004, 07:01:02 am »

The Domitians all look suspect to me...they all have that "flat" look to them.

The Vespasian on the other hand looks okay to me. That one has me puzzled. $:-\$

The style of the photography on that one is also different than the other pics... a dealer on V-Coins? It looks so familar.

Jerome Holderman · « **Reply #65 on:** August 18, 2004, 07:16:00 am »

Is it possible that this seller has been a victim of the Toronto Group as opposed to part of it? The auctions don't quite fit the normal profile especially the fact that they are not private auctions. If that would be the case, possibly the Vespasian, and a few others?? could be authentic and he is using a higher quality dealer pic instead of his own?

Jerome Holderman · « **Reply #66 on:** August 18, 2004, 07:20:34 am »

Plus the full attributions. I have not seen the Toronto group do this.

maridvnvm · « **Reply #67 on:** August 18, 2004, 07:37:48 am »

I noticed the change in pattern but the number of doubtful coins seems too high for it to be just someone stung by the Toronto Group.
I would be interested in opinions on which of the coins that they feel are OK. I have my own list but would like to hera from others.

Martin

whitetd49 · « **Reply #68 on:** August 18, 2004, 08:14:30 am »

I think you're completely correct. It is a shift from the 1 day, private auctions (only one feedback) but the die matches confirm, Toronto fakes. Glad to see the Macedon tet, wasn't sure that was a fake last time around. Also the Caracalla/quadriga denarius is now confirmed fake. Glad you caught this auction, tho' some people look to be burned.

mauseus · « **Reply #69 on:** August 18, 2004, 08:21:43 am »

'Fraid I'm happy to pay $25 for a fake Macedon tet. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I love big Greek silver but
1. Can't afford it
2. Not sure if I were to look for it whether I could spot a fake

At least at this price I know its a fake and I get to appreciate the design.

Its a shame that it does look like some people are being taken in and thinking they're buying genuine.

Regards

Mauseus

Bluefish · « **Reply #70 on:** August 18, 2004, 08:23:44 am »

I'm glad the Fakes Board is actively serving its purpose!

maridvnvm · « **Reply #71 on:** August 18, 2004, 08:30:45 am »

jdholds - one thing that hasn't changed from the recent pattern of the Toronto Group is that they are seling as though they are based in the UK but list in US $, which immediately rings alarm bells with me.

Bluefish. As soon as I suspected these coins I went to the fakes board and searched for the emperor in question and low and behold a bunch of die matches... It just shows that this will be an increasingly useful tool as we manage to catch more and more of these being listed.

Martin

whitetd49 · « **Reply #72 on:** August 18, 2004, 08:41:43 am »

Martin, nice job. Looking in the Fakes gallery, I see that you have already noted the die matches. Yes, this is going to prove to be a powerful tool.

maridvnvm · « **Reply #73 on:** August 18, 2004, 08:49:14 am »

I have been looking at the previous sales that this guy has made since 31st July. There are 13 sold coins with a sold value of over $800. There is a mix of known Toronto group fakes mixed with some stuff I haven't seen listed as fakes elsewhere and with one or two items that look good (like the Vespasian) and have hed their photos lifted from somewhere. There has been no feedback as yet from any of the sellers and there are some buyers here with feedback ratings as high as 313 and they have bought fakes.

I have downloaded all the images from the past sales and will post ones here for discussion if I have doubts. I hope that is OK.

Martin

maridvnvm · « **Reply #74 on:** August 18, 2004, 09:39:39 am »

What about this Vespasian?

Struck 70-72 AD. IMP CAES VESP AVG P M COS IIII, laureate head right / AVGVR/TR POT, sacrificial implements. RIC II 30; BMCRE 50; RSC 43.

Martin

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Author Topic: Toronto Group (Read 29905 times)

Arles