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Author Topic: Is this real ???  (Read 912 times)

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Yaser K

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Is this real ???
« on: April 17, 2021, 10:39:42 am »
So ...guys the common words of wisdom are usually avoid ebay !  But i must admit that i have purchased from the site and have received genuine ancient coins from reputable dealers. As a rule of thumb i always check the seller against list of notorious fake sellers, avoid certain countries,  and use the best tool i have my eyes. Recently i took a gamble on the following coin . It ticked all the right boxes,  from a local uk seller with good feedback who mostly sells stamps and medals .( the seller was open to offers and accepted my second offer which i think was reasonable for this type and issue).
The coin looks right in style and appearance for a lysias indo greek drachm . No signs of casting , etc. I received the coin and in hand looks perfect came in a slip with an old note stating number in sear book etc.
My only concern is weight...i know that indo greek drachms are 2.45 grms ....16 to 17mm, this weighs 1.94 grams at 17mm .. it just seems good to me . What do u guys think...?

Offline Pekka K

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2021, 10:55:42 am »

Yaser K

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 10:59:59 am »
Thanks pekka k ,
 Yes a drachm of lysias i was just concerned about being slightly underweight at 1.94 when the standard for this type is 2.45 . Everything else style , and condition look ok ? Just wanted the opinion of the forum. Thanks

Offline Ron C2

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2021, 01:51:44 pm »
Thanks pekka k ,
 Yes a drachm of lysias i was just concerned about being slightly underweight at 1.94 when the standard for this type is 2.45 . Everything else style , and condition look ok ? Just wanted the opinion of the forum. Thanks

Honestly, your photos are too out of focus for me to commit to an opinion about the coin.  Others may feel the same also.
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Yaser K

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2021, 03:22:07 pm »
Sorry about pics , I've tried taking some more , it matches examples of lysias drachm on zeno.ru, its just the weight is a little light ...at 1.95 ...where it should be 2.45 ....could this loss be down to wear or is this just a good modern copy ?

Offline Altamura

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2021, 03:30:14 pm »
There are quite a few of these coins seemingly from the same dies out there, and they all are looking a bit unclear or smooth:
https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=81318
https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=62037
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7748352
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4427627
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3661682

I don't really trust them  :-\.

The weight of the coin here is clearly too low. But how accurate is the scale you are using?
Take your purse, pick out a small coin, weigh it and compare the result to the weight it should have (you find it e.g. somewhere in Wikipedia). Then you probably can judge how good your scale is.

Regards

Altamura


Yaser K

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2021, 03:42:39 pm »
Hi altamura thanks for the advice i did the exact thing weighed a few modern british coins with with these scales and were pretty much spot on to actual weight.  Oh well this will have to make its way to my black box . Apart from weight it looks authentic similiar dies on many sites lime you have mentioned  zeno.ru etc and iv been collecting and intrested in indogreek coins for many years now . The seller was not on the naughty list and i didn't really pay alot for it , i usually only buy from reputable dealers but now and again ill take a punt on an ebay coin if it ticks boxes ... win some you lose some .

Offline Altamura

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 03:13:09 am »
I chose my words with caution  :). "Not really trusting them" does not mean "being sure they are definitely fake"  ;).

Perhaps someone else can also have a look on these coins.

Regards

Altamura




Offline Din X

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 07:03:08 am »
I do not like most of the coins posted here, they have as mentioned before by  Altamura  a very smooth/soapy surface but this alone would not be enough for condemnation because real dies can wear down with usage a little bit too resulting in detail loss and softer details and soft strikes can exist, too. And very worn dies generally have flow lines, which will erode with time in the dies, especially near the letters from metal flow, they are not present here.
What is bothering me here is that many coins have very serious problems like transfer errors and detail loss (very soapy details) and holes, look for example for the lips there is a hole and the letters O, Y , Sigma etc have holes or are incomplete. There is something like a ghost line at OY last two letters of Lysiou, it seems like the lowest part of the Y was cut off and the and a little bit of the lowest part of O could be cut off too. There seems to be a die break through first A/Alpha of basileos which goes through head and ends in front of lips. Above nose is a die flaw, too.
I could not find this die break or die flaws or holes or letter defects on authentic coins form the same dies!!!!!!
Filled dies with dirt is imho pure fantasy so far all coins with such holes were transfer die fakes (the dies were casted resulting in the holes from air/gas bubbles and tranfer errors and detail loss).
The fake from Zeno with same problems has PAINT on it as I have seen it beofre on fakes from Afganistan or Lebanon (Beirut) ^^

Edit: I forgot the letter H has a defect too, there the two bars are not connected with each other because the bar in middle connecting them is missing.

Edit: Orthography errors from fast writing corrected.

Offline Din X

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 07:05:31 am »
Here authentic coins without this holes and letter defect all from same obverse and and some from same reverse die, too.


Yaser K

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Re: Is this real ???
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 08:26:23 am »
Thanks for research and observations din x !  Greatly appreciate your time and effort into resolving this for me .  +++  a fake for sure , amazing how a database like zeno.ru has similar fakes on display as " examples " of this type  :'(

 

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