Just started collecting and I have a few questions

[Joseph C1]

Hello everyone!

I recently started collecting ancient coins. I've been interested for some time - ever since I bought some (presumably fake) coins in Petra. I was surprised to see that many real coins are relatively affordable, so I bought a few. My collection is still very small (11 coins), but I'm greatly enjoying it.

The following are some things I've done so far:
- For each coin, I write a one page summary of the history. I include a map where it's from and discuss the ruler, region, and specifics about the coin. Most of it I copy from Wikipedia. I then cut out a rectangle in the page and tape the coin holder from ForumAncientCoins onto the page so I can see both sides. I then put the page in a sleeve, which then goes into my binder. This way I have the history together with all of my coins and it provides a lot more context.
- I've decided against buying identification books for now. Maybe when I get to 100-200 coins I'll invest there, but for now all coins come from Forum, which gives me all the info anyways. I do pay attention to all coins listed by Forum, and I then search for more information about the history and the coin.
- First first couple coins were random, but I'm now leaning toward collecting ancient Greek (all BCE) and one coin - ideally a silver denarius - from each Roman emperor and wife. For now, I'm mostly picking up Greek coins and cheaper Roman ones.
- Every coin thus far I've bought from Forum. The prices seem fair and I like the attributions. Right now I just wish they had more coins I want, as I'm not super interested in Judea and Egyptian provincials. I'm in the process of selling all the Transformers and Star Wars toys I had as a kid, which has provided some budget.

The following questions I'm interested in:
- Are there any lists on popular coins every beginner should pick up? So far the lists I've found contain "dream" coins that are very limited. I'm looking for more realistic coins. So far the two I've decided I want for sure are a classical owl and a lifetime Alexander III. I also like many of the coins from Sicily, though it's difficult to find ones that aren't so pricey.
- What should I look for in buying classical owls? I found some articles online that state ones with a full crest are pricier, and to have some room by the nose. But take for example this auction - [LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN] Why did lot 127 go for $600 with a full crest, but lot 128 went for $1200? Is it because the E is worn and no one likes AOL? Similarly, lot 134 seems cheap, while lot 129 seems too much. I'd like to better understand how they're valued before picking one up.
- Are the estimates on [REMOVED BY ADMIN] too low? In particular for the owls they seem so.
- From the [REMOVED BY ADMIN] auction, it looks like everything was bid up high, so I'm not sure about trying them. I have seen some interesting coins on [REMOVED BY ADMIN]. I've read here that they're reputable, but I'm still a little nervous. I'm debating to just wait until Forum finally lists something I want. Are there other auctions or places you can recommend?

Also, a general question: did ancient (wealthy) Romans collect coins too? I'm just wondering if some of these coins in awesome condition have been actually passed on.

Thank you very much for your help!

[Jay GT4]

Hey Joseph, welcome to Forum!  We'd love to see your coins so why not start your own gallery?  You've done well to start buying coins from Forum instead of Ebay. 

As far as coins "every beginner should own," that's up to each collector.  However, the two you mention are classics that everyone knows, the Athenian owl tetradrachms and Alexander the great.  You can't go wrong there, especially if that is where you want to focus your collection.

It's always good to have books that deal with your area of focus.  This helps you attribute on your own and also helps you spot misattributions.  Because I focus on the Flavians I have books that focus on them.  I've found many rare misattributed coins because of mistakes.   It will also help you understand why two coins that may look the same may go for different prices.  Once you decide where your focus is then buy the books.

Because this message board is hosted by Joe (who owns Forum) we don't discuss other dealers or auction houses unless they are members of this board and participate.   So it is best not to mention other dealers by name.  A mod may edit your post. 

Look forward to seeing your coins!

[okidoki]

Hello Joseph,

welcome here, take your time to look around, so much to see and learn

[Joe Sermarini]

Welcome Joseph and thanks for your orders.

Judaea and Egyptian provincials are what we have added lately. We don't specialize in them. We will add other groups of all different types over time.

As Jay GT4 said, this not the place to ask for buying advice about other dealers and sites. This is actually not the place to talk about prices and buying or selling. I do a little advertising here. Our Procurator Monetae members are welcome to advertise too. We offer some tools for avoiding fakes, and a few other small things. But other than that, this discussion is about numismatics as a science and hobby, and history, mythology and other related topics. But not buying and selling.

[SC]

Welcome Joseph.

It looks like you are off to a great start.

You have got your coins from a great source.  In addition to what you mentioned, you can rest assured that a) you have bought them from a very knowledgeable and conscientious dealer, and b) they are guaranteed, so that in the unlikely event you ever get a fake through that route it will be made right.  The same can't be said for many dealers.

That is important because one of the key pieces of advice for collecting safely is to "know the coin or know the dealer".  You can't "know the coin" - that is become truly proficient in a type of coinage to be sure you get a genuine and properly attributed coin for a fair price - until you get some experience, so you really have to rely on "knowing the dealer" - that is that they are skilled and trustworthy - when you first start.

I also think your approach of adding that page of research is great.  Without it they are just pretty pieces of metal.  With such work they come alive as a part of our fascinating history.

I wish you good luck in finding a focus.

SC

[JamesC11]

Although it is a book not much discussed on Forum, for an absolute beginning collector of classical coins (and I consider myself such) you can't do much better than the HANDBOOK OF ANCIENT GREEK & ROMAN COINS by Zander H. Klawans, in the paperback version in the Whitman Guidebook series, still in print at $14.95.  Although somewhat dated and not error-free, it is chatty and fun, copiously illustrated including sketches of the striking of ancient coins, and guaranteed not to scare you away from the hobby.

[Joseph C1]

Thank you for all the great responses! I'll look into the book mentioned.

I apologize for the questions about buying. I was just a bit anxious because I now have some budget.

[JBF]

I like Wayne Sayles "Ancient Coin Collecting" books, the first in the series is just about ancient coin collecting in general.
Welcome to the hobby.

John

[Virgil H]

Hi Joseph,

I am going to respond as a new collector. I have had an interest in ancient and medieval coins my entire life and started a small collection decades ago of mostly medieval when I was stationed in Germany. That I had to sell back in the day because I needed the money. While I have bought a couple of coins from Forvm going back to 2012 (one of them an Alexander lifetime issue that was not at all expensive), recently, I have started collecting in a much bigger way. With the exception of a small lot of uncleaned late Roman bronze coins, all my purchases have been from the Forvm store or the member's auctions. Because I trust this dealer and have yet to be disappointed. I was also not disappointed in my uncleaned coin purchase because I didn't have high expectations and what I got I am still working through and I am pleased so far. I also just bought a lot of 15 unattributed Greek bronzes from Forvm because I enjoy the challenge of both cleaning and attributing. That allows me to spend more time with the coins that just pulling them out to look at every once in a while. I do that, too, of course. Many other collectors may advise that we buy attributed coins from reputable sources rather than what I have done. But, as I progress, I have been doing both with my small budget. So, some thoughts on how my collecting has been going.

1. I buy what I like and what I can afford. My limited budget certainly informs my purchases. I don't even look at gold coins. So, I am scattershot and I don't see myself ever specializing. Maybe I will, but I doubt it.

2. I have spent a lot of time in Europe and the Middle East, so one thing I am trying to do is get coins from places I have been, particularly Turkey when it was Greek, Roman, and Byzantine, as well as Greek and Roman Europe. One of my favorite coins is an Ionia-Ephesus AR Drachm. I went to Ephesus when there were literally no people there and you could do whatever you wanted in the days before hundreds of cruise ship buses. Pergamon is also on my list for the same reason. Having spent a lot of time in Turkey also makes Byzantine coins of interest.

3. I am a history nut, so I also buy coins on that basis. I got into the late Roman coins because that is what the uncleaned coins were and that has opened up more explorations of history that I wasn't as familiar with. Its a win-win, although the coins themselves aren't very valuable. For me, the connection between a physical object from hundreds to thousands of years ago is incredible. To just hold it in my hand and imagine where it has been is amazing.

4. I have bought coins because of a god or goddess on it. I am a big Artemis fan (that Ephesus connection again), so have a coin with her image. If I ever specialize, it may be to collect coins with the various Roman and Greek gods and goddesses on them.

5. The only reason I haven't gotten into Persian or other ancient coins is that it just widens the field too much and trying to read Chinese, Arabic, or Persian is more than I want to do. Latin and Greek are hard enough LOL.

6. The bottom line is there are a million ways to be a collector and all are good.

Good luck and welcome.

[Joseph C1]

Since I last posted, I've learned a lot more and I now have become fully confident in how little I actually know. I have sold a number of my other collectibles, which has enabled me to make some purchases. I'm still charting a course on what coins I want to collect, but so far I've come up with the following.

- Coins from ancient Greece (before the Roman conquest). Aside from a couple of famous ones, I'm really looking at coins that a) look nice and b) aren't expensive. There are places like Thebes (the subject of so many works I've read) and Aspendos (visited) that I would like to buy coins from, but they're pricy. So, I'll just be patient and pick things up here and there.
- One coin from each Roman emperor. I'm starting with Augustus (don't have one yet), as Julius Caesar coins are out of my budget. My rule is once I have a coin from that emperor, I won't get any more. Some who only ruled for a short period are too pricy, so I'll skip them for the time being. I'm only collecting imperial coins - no provisionals.

I'm also changing my practice on writing a page on each coin. Instead of lifting the text from Wikipedia, I'm writing the following:
- A brief history of the city or ruler depicted
- Some more details about the coin. For example, I bought a dolphin from Olbia so I wrote about why the coin is shaped like a dolphin.
- Why did I buy this particular coin? What interested me about it?
- Where, when, and for how much I purchased it.

If there's interest here, I can post some of these biographies (without purchase information of course) for discussion.

I want to give these coins a much more personal side, since each is a connection to a very long time ago. I'm youngish and (I hope) have a long way to go, but when my grandfather passed away, he had hundreds of thousands of dollars in US coins but they had no context, so the family just sent them to an auction house. I'd like my descendants to know much more about what each truly means, so perhaps they'll stay in the family.

[Joe Sermarini]

Please do post them, and consider starting a gallery.

[Tracy Aiello]

Joseph,

I echo Joe's sentiments.

Tracy

[Virgil H]

I love your approach. And I love the writing of histories of each coin. I am doing something like that. If you buy from Forvm, you usually get the coin in a 2 x 2 flip that has a two sided 1 5/8 x 1 5/8 papers with details of the coin on the front and a short history blurb on the back. With the flips, you can read the info on both sides and easily look at both sides of the coin. A more detailed history can be in a text document. I have done an Open Office (open source Word that is free, basically) template to write these up for my coins that do not come with as much detail and I can cut with scissors to fit the flips (total PITA to get the paper in there LOL). The few other dealers I have bought from never do it to the same level of detail as Forvm, but often they don't even come with flips. I would also love to see some details of what you are doing with your coins.

[Serendipity]

I’m also a newbie like yourself. You’ve definitely come to the right place. The FORVM is a wonderful mine of information on ancient coins. My first and only ancient coin acquisition at present is the iconic classical Athenian Owl tetradrachm which is a good starting point. However, it’s up to each collector as Jay GT4 has quite rightly said what coins to add to their collection. Every collection is fascinatingly diverse.

Did more well-to-do Romans collect coins? The first coin collector is said to have been Augustus. According to Suetonius, he gave "coins of every device, including old pieces of the kings and foreign money" as Saturnalia gifts just as a modern coin collector would gift coins as Christmas presents. Most ancient coins were recovered untouched for millennia from modern archeological digs which is why some look like they were just minted yesterday.