Ancient Coin Legalities and Scams

[Stefan V3]

Hello,

Legalities
I have always been curious about whether or not these ancient coins technically belong to the government of the country that they were found in. Especially if the country has strict laws such as Greece, Turkey, etc...how is it that these ancient coins wind up on the market and into dealers hands to sell to buyers? How do the coins leave the country if it illegal? Do the countries that have strict laws consider ancient coin collecting a somewhat black market trade?


Scams
There are two rumors that I have heard regarding the marketplace and trade of ancient coins and I am curious if you have any insight on these matters. The first rumor I heard was that in some of the countries where ancient coins are found, people (scammers) in these countries make replicas of ancient coins and then they will place them in certain spots and areas in the ground. (fields, etc.) Then when tourists come they go to these scammers and then the scammers send the tourists off with metal dictators (maybe the tourist has there own) to the areas where they placed/buried the coins they made. Obviously the tourists pay the scammer and the scammers make a so-called "treasure hunting business" out of this. Is this rumor possible? Do you have any insight on this?

The second rumor I heard was that scammers make the ancient coins themselves and then feed them to goats so that when they pass through the goat the coin has an "old" look to it. Any thoughts on this?

I only ask because people will do anything to fake things today and I am curious if it is possible that some of these fake coins were moved to the ancient coin marketplace and are being sold today?

Thank you for your patience.

Regards,

Stefan

[Joe Sermarini]

Some coins are definitely smuggled out of countries where hunting for them and exporting them is illegal. Don't buy coins from those countries. Don't get involved in smuggling. If you buy very expensive rare desirable coins ($20K and up), you should make sure there is good history for them. For lower value coins, it isn't a worry if you are buying from reputable dealers, especially in the USA.

Yes, people have put fakes on or in the ground and then helped tourists find them.  If you are a tourist, don't fall for this.

I have heard the goat story. It may be true, but it isn't going to make a fake look real. There are many ways to age fake coins, goats are not the most common or effective.

There are many fakes for sale on eBay. If you don't know a fake coin from a genuine coin, don't buy on eBay, buy from reputable dealers, like FORVM.   

Frankly, I think I have said all that needs to be said on these topics here. Lets not turn this into a long thread. If you are concerned about these things, Stefan buy from FORVM.

[djmacdo]

Years ago when I was helping a dealer a wealthy gentleman recently returned from a tour of Italy came into the shop with a prized patinated statuette of winged of winged victory he has seen discovered with his own eyes and had hastily purchased from the guide for a very substantial sum.  Unfortunately, both of us immediately recognized it as a bronze cast of a Roles Royce hood ornament.
Know your seller!

[Stefan V3]

I really appreciate the information. It means a lot. I will certainly look into buying my next ancient coins with FORVM ANCIENT COINS. If I may I would like to close off this forum with some final questions to conclude the topic:

Since my 1/12th Lydian stater coin is or was found in Turkey and then put on the market does that mean it was smuggled out and that it technically belongs to the Turkish government? Does it become legal once it hits the European/USA market?

I am in that case guessing that experts can tell the difference between the fake coins involved in these types of scams and genuine ones correct?

Lastly: The Lydian coin I am speaking of was certified by NGC, David Sears, and the certified dealer who I bought it from, are those credentials a safe bet that my Lydian coin is an authentic 2500 year old coin?

Thank you again!

[Joe Sermarini]

I assume you don't know precisely when or where your coin was found.  Was it found in Turkey? Probably. But it may have been found and exported many years ago, perhaps even before there was a Turkish government. Turkey would have to prove its claim, which would be difficult or impossible and probably not something they care about anyway.

Experts can certainly tell the difference between tourist fakes and genuine coins. There are fakes made to fool dealers and collectors and those can slip past experts sometimes. Even a poor fake can slip past an expert on a day when the expert is hurried, sleepy or otherwise not paying careful attention. Every dealer makes mistakes, so it is good to buy only from the most reputable expert dealers with a guarantee without time limit.

I would be very confident in the authenticity of a coin certified by either NGC or David Sear.  If your coin was certified by NGC, it would normally be in their plastic holder (slab) and you could look up the number on their website to confirm it is certified. If your coin was certified by David Sear, you should have a certificate of authenticity signed by David Sear.

I don't know what a certified dealer is, and anyone who claims to be one just might be suspect. And if they claimed your coin was certified by both NGC and David Sear but did not give you the evidence, they may be a fraud.