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Author Topic: A question of translation  (Read 1525 times)

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Offline PtolemAE

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A question of translation
« on: July 05, 2020, 03:57:56 pm »
There is a small exhibit at the archaeological museum in Barcelona with a dozen coins on display from 5th to 3rd C. BC. The legend of the description is:

Monedas de plata de la seca d'Emporion

and the first part of that is easy to read (silver coins of the ...) so the question is, for our Spanish or Catalan-fluent friends here, what is 'seca d'Emporion'.  Just a reasonable guess that 'seca' could refer to a dry area ?

Thanks for your linguistic expertise,

PtolemAE

Offline Altamura

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2020, 04:24:01 pm »
It is just "the mint of Emporion"  :). In Spanish it is ceca, in Catalan seca.

Regards

Altamura


Offline PtolemAE

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2020, 02:48:58 am »
It is just "the mint of Emporion"  :). In Spanish it is ceca, in Catalan seca.

Regards

Altamura


Thank you. Is 'Emporion' a location? a city? Does it still exist?

Interesting word, 'seca'.  Seca in Spanish, if I recall, means 'dry'.  as in 'laguna seca' - a dry lake. but completely different in Catalan.


PtolemAE

Offline Pekka K

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2020, 03:06:18 am »

RPC online places it here:

Offline Altamura

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2020, 04:32:49 am »
Quote from: PtolemAE on July 06, 2020, 02:48:58 am
... Is 'Emporion' a location? a city? Does it still exist? ...

Emporion (or sometimes Emporiton) has been founded c. 575 BC as an emporion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emporium_(antiquity) , therefore the name  :)) by Greeks from Phokaia in the northern part of Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emp%C3%BAries

The city had a large coin production, see e.g. here:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=%28emporiton+emporion%29&category=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&thesaurus=1&order=1&currency=usd&company=

Regards

Altamura


Offline dwarf

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2020, 05:05:29 am »
As to  "seca"

My Spanish is upgradeable, but I think it will derive from the original name of the mint of Venice - Zecca
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecca_of_Venice

The German version of this Wikipedia article correctly mentions that zecca originally is arabic.
And on top of this - the Zecchino has its name from the Zecca of Venice.
Which means - the Venetian zecchino is an arabic coin  ;D
Quote
Eine Münzprägestätte, die Zecca (arab. Münze), lässt sich bereits zu Anfang des 9. Jahrhunderts fassen

Regards
Dwarf



Offline PtolemAE

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2020, 04:05:12 pm »
Quote from: PtolemAE on July 06, 2020, 02:48:58 am
... Is 'Emporion' a location? a city? Does it still exist? ...

Emporion (or sometimes Emporiton) has been founded c. 575 BC as an emporion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emporium_(antiquity) , therefore the name  :)) by Greeks from Phokaia in the northern part of Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emp%C3%BAries

The city had a large coin production, see e.g. here:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=%28emporiton+emporion%29&category=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&thesaurus=1&order=1&currency=usd&company=

Regards

Altamura



Thank you very much. Exactly what I hoped to learn.

PtolemAE

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2020, 04:10:41 pm »
As to  "seca"

My Spanish is upgradeable, but I think it will derive from the original name of the mint of Venice - Zecca
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecca_of_Venice

The German version of this Wikipedia article correctly mentions that zecca originally is arabic.
And on top of this - the Zecchino has its name from the Zecca of Venice.
Which means - the Venetian zecchino is an arabic coin  ;D
Quote
Eine Münzprägestätte, die Zecca (arab. Münze), lässt sich bereits zu Anfang des 9. Jahrhunderts fassen

Regards
Dwarf


Thanks. If it had said 'zecca' it would have been less confusing than 'seca' :) And if it were all in German it would have been a piece of cake.  In the German above, the parenthetical bit seems to refer back to the Zecca as the Arabic word for a coin.

But the nature and location of Emporion is now revealed, answering the bulk of my inquiry.

Thanks to everyone who played. And just to add one more tidbit to this, there is a city named 'Emporia' in Kansas :)

PtolemAE

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2020, 04:37:14 pm »

RPC online places it here:

Alas, the RPC map shows no context with modern geography but the designation location here for Emporion seems to be just a bit north of where Barcelona is today so the coins in their archaeological museum could be local finds. Likely there are plenty of archaeological digs around that area, too.

PtolemAE

Offline Altamura

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2020, 03:14:01 am »
Quote from: PtolemAE on July 06, 2020, 04:37:14 pm
... Alas, the RPC map shows no context with modern geography but the designation location here for Emporion seems to be just a bit north of where Barcelona is today ...
Open Google maps, type in "Emporion", click on "enter" and you will see it (googling is not so difficult  :) ):
https://www.google.de/maps/place/17130+Emp%C3%BAries,+Provinz+Girona,+Spanien/@42.1331351,3.1134403,15.75z/

Regards

Altamura


Offline PtolemAE

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Re: A question of translation
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2020, 05:54:42 pm »
Quote from: PtolemAE on July 06, 2020, 04:37:14 pm
... Alas, the RPC map shows no context with modern geography but the designation location here for Emporion seems to be just a bit north of where Barcelona is today ...
Open Google maps, type in "Emporion", click on "enter" and you will see it (googling is not so difficult  :) ):
https://www.google.de/maps/place/17130+Emp%C3%BAries,+Provinz+Girona,+Spanien/@42.1331351,3.1134403,15.75z/

Regards

Altamura


Thank you for these detailed link instructions to an alternative to the RPC map, for the technologically-challenged. It's reassuring to find that Emporion is a bit north of Barcelona on this map, too :)

PtolemAE

 

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