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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Greek Coins (Moderators: Dino, Meepzorp)  |  Topic: Unknown Greek coins? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Artem M2
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« on: November 07, 2019, 09:03:38 am »

Hello!
Please tell me what kind of coins are in the photo below? Whose are they?
I need help.

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Artem M2
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 10:06:49 am »

The fact is that one of my previously unidentified coins has features identical to the reverse of one of these coins.

After restoration, the yellow color of the metal appeared on this coin.




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cmcdon0923
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 10:32:38 am »

The image is part of the Israel Museum's "White Gold" exhibit from 2012 (not sure if it's still on display).  The coins represent multiple types/examples of early electrum (aka, white gold) coinage.
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Artem M2
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 01:10:11 pm »

The image is part of the Israel Museum's "White Gold" exhibit from 2012 (not sure if it's still on display).  The coins represent multiple types/examples of early electrum (aka, white gold) coinage.


Thanks for the help!
What kingdom do you think minted this?

Diameter 7mm, weight 0.22 grams.
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paparoupa
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 01:39:29 am »

The image is part of the Israel Museum's "White Gold" exhibit from 2012 (not sure if it's still on display).  The coins represent multiple types/examples of early electrum (aka, white gold) coinage.


Thanks for the help!
What kingdom do you think minted this?

Diameter 7mm, weight 0.22 grams.

Your coin surely not electrum or gold. It is either billon or silver or a fouree with a bronze core. I think for the attribution you can have a look at this one from dardanos  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6013294
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Artem M2
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2019, 06:12:47 am »

The image is part of the Israel Museum's "White Gold" exhibit from 2012 (not sure if it's still on display).  The coins represent multiple types/examples of early electrum (aka, white gold) coinage.
Thanks for the help!
What kingdom do you think minted this?
Diameter 7mm, weight 0.22 grams.
Your coin surely not electrum or gold. It is either billon or silver or a fouree with a bronze core. I think for the attribution you can have a look at this one from dardanos  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6013294

Many thanks. Yes indeed very similar.
Maybe you will have some thoughts,why is part of the reverse of my coin identical to the reverse of a white gold coin???
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archivum
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2019, 12:06:39 pm »

"Incuse" just means something like "anvil-imprinted," so maybe, imprinted on the same anvil.
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Pekka K
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2019, 12:36:19 pm »


Not same as the electrum (white gold) coin is much bigger than your coin.

Pekka K
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Artem M2
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2019, 01:39:21 pm »

Not same as the electrum (white gold) coin is much bigger than your coin.
Pekka K

Yes, my coin is 6 mm in diameter, maybe it's such a writing, or figurative something???

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Artem M2
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2019, 10:26:02 am »

Really there will be no thoughts?
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Altamura
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 11:25:23 am »

I see just an irregular something  Wink.

These early coins usually didn't have anything written in the incuse square, and if so, it was much clearer.

Regards

Altamura
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Artem M2
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 02:22:45 pm »

I see just an irregular something  Wink.
These early coins usually didn't have anything written in the incuse square, and if so, it was much clearer.
Regards
Altamura

Hello!
Thank you, but there can be no such coincidence! This is definitely some designation.
My coin looks like silver from the reverse and bronze from the obverse.
I don’t understand how to determine the type, how to explain the coincidence with a coin from the Israeli museum?

This is a very rare coin, right?

They were together:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=120312.0
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=120315.0

Can I chat with you in private messages?
I do not understand how to do this? Contact me, it is very important!

Anokhin, indicates this coin as type 968. But I heard the version that this opinion is erroneous.
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 03:16:52 pm »

Such incuse reverses were used by many mints.  There is not enough left of your coin for certain attribution.
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Artem M2
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 03:59:04 pm »

Such incuse reverses were used by many mints.  There is not enough left of your coin for certain attribution.

Good afternoon!
Could this happen on several identical coins?
This is not incuse. Moreover, the coin is identical to Anokhin type 968.
How to explain the "incuse" on coins of different sizes?
How can you justify this and the coincidence of the “tilt” with the “white gold” coin from Israel?
I see that they are partially identical. And users can see it for themselves.
And they are identical, but not completely, as if the beginning is the same, but the end is different!
I in no way pretend to the originality of their writing. I just put a yellow marker on the same characters and red on the distinguishing ones. Perhaps something is wrong, but not by much. You can do it yourself!


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JBF
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 06:59:18 pm »

The incuse punch or stamp is the top die, not the anvil die.  Before they had types on the reverse, they used punches or stamps.  The quadripartite stamp that yours shows is a typical stamp design, but not the only stamp design.  Think of it as the face of the punch or stamp as having some texture to 'grip' the coin.  Again, a common stamp design is a square with four sections, also each square, in other words, "quadripartite."  It is doubtful in the extreme that an electrum coin that has a quadripartite reverse would share its punch with a silver or bronze coin, or probably even another electrum coin.  Of course if you could measure the stamp and sections of each, maybe you could make a comparison.  but, I am not sure even then.  But, the shape is a common shape for stamps, as far as the obverse side, I don't see anything in particular there.  I would be concerned that seeing things in there might be like looking at clouds, we might "see" something, but that might reflect our expectations more than it reflects what is there.  Although I wouldn't eliminate the possibility that some high tech development might in the future be able to verify the original imagery on a well worn coin.
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Artem M2
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2019, 08:50:53 pm »

The incuse punch or stamp is the top die, not the anvil die....

Hello!
I understand your feelings, I myself could not believe my eyes. Please note that my coin is much smaller than the one represented in Israel. It is phenomenal that one fragment is completely identical.
To be honest, I still can’t understand how people used to use such tiny coins at that time, this is absolutely not practical. What could be bought at that time for such a coin? What is the meaning of such a unit? It seems very strange to me.


Look at it! What do you see? Is this a coincidence or a sensation?
 
I didn’t come up with anything, I just started drawing symmetrical elements.
Perhaps I was a little mistaken, but all the basic elements are identical.

I do not believe what I see. What seemed chaotic began to appear in the image.



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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2019, 07:49:08 am »

The circled coin in the photograph will have a diameter of at least 18mm.  Your diameter is 7mm.  So they cannot be the same.

Your similarity to an electrum stater of Cyzicus must be coincidental.

There are rare cases of coins that appear to be silver struck with the same types, or even dies, as electrum coins.  I am not aware of anything published by the scholarly community for electrum.  In Roman coins we sometimes hear of a denarius "struck from aureus dies".

I am attaching an auction photograph of a rare electrum coin and a silver coin that share the same reverse die.  The electrum coin matches a specimen Linzalone, Electrum and the Invention of Coinage #1109.  The silver coin is unpublished.  It looks genuine.

I have seen a few coins on dealer sites that look like they "should" be electrum but are not.  They could be contemporary counterfeits, or screw-ups at the mint.  The coin I am attaching is interesting because it looks genuine, has an obverse that matches a silver coin, and a reverse that matches early electrum.

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Artem M2
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2019, 12:03:52 pm »

The circled coin in the photograph will have a diameter of at least 18mm.  Your diameter is 7mm.  So they cannot be the same.
Your similarity to an electrum stater of Cyzicus must be coincidental.

This may not be a coincidence. The coins are different, but the features are identical.
Please note that the identical part of my coin has a size of about 1.5 mm. How could ancient people make such a stamp?


I have seen a few coins on dealer sites that look like they "should" be electrum but are not.  They could be contemporary counterfeits, or screw-ups at the mint.  The coin I am attaching is interesting because it looks genuine, has an obverse that matches a silver coin, and a reverse that matches early electrum.


I think this is a figurative letter. I see the symmetry in the relief. In addition to the two “eyes”, there are “two eyebrows”, and under the “eyes” there are “two cheeks” on the sides and so on.
I understand that I look crazy. But take a look, this is phenomenal, I found a similarity on another coin with the same way.

We must do our best to understand this.


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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2019, 01:17:47 pm »

Sometimes we see images in clouds.  There is nothing there but our mind fills in the blank.

I am attaching an image of a coin I bought in 2003 because the dealer said he thought he saw letters when he described the incuse reverse in his catalog.  There are no letters, just die breaks.  Because the dealer saw letters I bought a coin I would have otherwise passed over.

There are ancient coins with incuse reverses any tiny letters and symbols in the reverses.  I don't think you have one.  You may be seeing die breaks or manufacturing irregularities.  If you see a different coin it may have similar marks because it was made using the same process and experienced similar stresses.
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Artem M2
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« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 06:56:00 am »

Sometimes we see images in clouds.  There is nothing there but our mind fills in the blank.

Hello! Thanks for the answer.
I understand your misunderstanding. But these are not clouds - these are three completely different coins, having in one of the squares an identical image, despite their size.

You may be seeing die breaks or manufacturing irregularities.  If you see a different coin it may have similar marks because it was made using the same process and experienced similar stresses.

And these are not die breaks or manufacturing irregularities.
The same production disruptions could not occur on two different coins from different regions. Moreover, coins of different sizes and minted from different alloys.

Please accept my opinion as a fantasy, pay attention and note that in the photo of the gold coin there are stripes that slightly blur the image. There is no such photo defect on my coin, because of this, some elements were originally painted by me incorrectly, but the bulk of the relief is absolutely identical !!


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djmacdo
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« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 03:03:27 pm »

Your photos are poorly focused so that it is impossible to evaluate your claims.
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Artem M2
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« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 03:35:07 pm »

People!
I took three different coins, in the left square of which there is the same symbol, how can this be a coincidence?
Check it yourself, but only one small piece is shown on one, but it is identical, you just need to mark all the same elements. I am sure that in time I will find more of these coins. The only problem is that many coins are cleaned, and the relief is very delicate.
If someone notices such “coincidences”, write on this topic, let's attract the attention of the general public, perhaps someone has connections with museums and scientists who could justify this.

Thank you for your help!
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« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 04:19:22 pm »

You might not be crazy but this entire thread is. I suspect you are trolling us.  I am going to delete this thread.  Keep posting crazy nonsense and I will close your account.
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Artem M2
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« Reply #23 on: Today at 01:34:19 am »

You might not be crazy but this entire thread is. I suspect you are trolling us.  I am going to delete this thread.  Keep posting crazy nonsense and I will close your account.

Hello respected Joe Sermarini, sorry, I didn’t want to offend anyone, do not take my
my phantasmogorias as a fact, this is just a hypothesis.

I only shared some of the arguments that I accidentally discovered.
Everyone can see these three different coins in the photo, I’m not deceiving anyone, the similarity is very large. I see absolutely identical relief sections. An astronaut is a fantasy, but an exact copy of the relief cannot but astound.

I apologize, I will no longer develop this topic if you do not like it, although I found another coin with an identical section. I swear to you that there are no evil intentions in my messages.

Please do not delete my topic and my account, I did nothing wrong.


(И извините за мой английский, я из Украины.)



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