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Author Topic: Would appreciate confirmation re a Ptolemy Bronze of 17.1mm x 2.4 grams.  (Read 1224 times)

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Offline coldavo

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Hi All,

I am getting a Ptolemy bronze for my collection which measures 17.1mm in diameter and 2.4 grams in weight.

It is the later "high necked" type eagle but I am not sure if the obverse shows Zeus or Heracles.

I presume that is a Svoronos 1715 but the illustrations in ptolemybronze.com and in Svoronos are not very clear.

As mentioned, I presume that  it is an Sv1715 but I HOPE that it is a Svoronos 1496.

The reason for this is that an illustration of Sv1496 in the article mentioned in ptolemybronze.com (Plate 18 #6 of "Bronze Coinage of Ptolemaic Egypt in the Second Century BC" by Lorber and Faucher)  is fairly similar to mine.

I have included a photo of my coin and a second photo which shows both my coin and the one mentioned in the above article.

I would appreciate your comments on the matter.

All the best,
Col

Offline PtolemAE

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Re: Would appreciate confirmation re a Ptolemy Bronze of 17.1mm x 2.4 grams.
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2019, 01:46:28 am »
Hi All,

I am getting a Ptolemy bronze for my collection which measures 17.1mm in diameter and 2.4 grams in weight.

It is the later "high necked" type eagle but I am not sure if the obverse shows Zeus or Heracles.

I presume that is a Svoronos 1715 but the illustrations in ptolemybronze.com and in Svoronos are not very clear.

As mentioned, I presume that  it is an Sv1715 but I HOPE that it is a Svoronos 1496.

The reason for this is that an illustration of Sv1496 in the article mentioned in ptolemybronze.com (Plate 18 #6 of "Bronze Coinage of Ptolemaic Egypt in the Second Century BC" by Lorber and Faucher)  is fairly similar to mine.

I have included a photo of my coin and a second photo which shows both my coin and the one mentioned in the above article.

I would appreciate your comments on the matter.

All the best,
Col

Very likely your coin is Sv 1715, as you suspect.  Afaik there are two known specimens of Sv 1496 - the one listed in Svoronos and the one illustrated on

www.ptolemybronze.com

Alas, the illustrations of Svoronos's plate image (Plate 51, #16) are unavailable online unless the Athens specimen listed by Svoronos is now online somewhere.  The one in the 'online' Svoronos appears to be missing completely and the one in the google book of Svoronos is unfortunately spoiled (shows as a black blob).  The picture of Sv 1496 in the Faucher and Lorber paper might be photographed from the Svoronos plates but I can't confirm it.  The only illustration I can be certain of Sv 1496 is the one mentioned above.  

If your coin were more clear we might be able to tell for sure if the portrait is Heracles (1496) or Zeus (1715). It's a bit thickly patinated but I can make out a large Ammon horn (iow, Zeus = 1715, not Herakles = 1496).

Sv 1715 are also more common (though Svoronos only lists one, without a weight) and illustrations are easier to find and they look a lot like your coin. Compare yours with the Sv1715 from CNG Auction 76, Lot 919 (12 September 2007).  That illustration of Sv 1715 is clear front and back. Svoronos's illustration of 1715 is not very good.

Yours is also a bit light weight to be 1496 (two specimens at 3.7 and 3.74 grams vs. your 2.4).

If you do come upon a specimen of Sv 1496 please report the news.  So little is known about Sv 1496 that any information and specimens will be welcome.  Keep hope alive.

PtolemAE




Offline coldavo

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Re: Would appreciate confirmation re a Ptolemy Bronze of 17.1mm x 2.4 grams.
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2019, 02:30:12 am »
Hi PtolemAE,

Once again you've hit the spot. Your information was enough but the CNG coin, that you mention, clinched it.

I found the illustration of the CNG coin and it is a dead-ringer for mine.

My problem was that I couldn't find a reasonable illustration of Sv1715 to compare with mine. The few illustrations that I did find weren't clear enough or they didn't seem to have the same type eagle. Then I found the Sv1496 illustration with a fairly similar eagle but, with the poor detail on the obverse of my coin, there was not enough information.

As mentioned, the CNG coin definitely determines mine as Sv1715.

Thank you for the help - as always it is much appreciated.

All the best,
Col


Offline PtolemAE

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Re: Would appreciate confirmation re a Ptolemy Bronze of 17.1mm x 2.4 grams.
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2019, 11:31:59 am »
Hi PtolemAE,

Once again you've hit the spot. Your information was enough but the CNG coin, that you mention, clinched it.

I found the illustration of the CNG coin and it is a dead-ringer for mine.

My problem was that I couldn't find a reasonable illustration of Sv1715 to compare with mine. The few illustrations that I did find weren't clear enough or they didn't seem to have the same type eagle. Then I found the Sv1496 illustration with a fairly similar eagle but, with the poor detail on the obverse of my coin, there was not enough information.

As mentioned, the CNG coin definitely determines mine as Sv1715.

Thank you for the help - as always it is much appreciated.

All the best,
Col



OK, glad that moved things along.

PtolemAE

 

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