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Author Topic: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion  (Read 865 times)

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Online Joe Sermarini

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Neapolis, Campania, Italy, c. 350 - 326 B.C.



The size and weight of the then allegedly unique Vienna specimen, led Taliercio to attribute the coin as a half unit struck with a quarter unit reverse die. The usual half unit has a star on the man-faced bull's shoulder. She also double listed the same specimen as a quarter unit. Additional finds of half-unit specimens without the star and from different dies indicate that it was not a hybrid error. Molinari suggests an early series of half-units was struck without the star. Perhaps the star was introduced after they discovered it could difficult to differentiate between the denominations.

GB89069. Bronze half unit, Potamikon 195, Vienna 1595 (=Taliercio Ia.1 = Ib.1,15), Sambon 560, HN Italy 574 var. (star on bull shoulder), aF, green and red mottled patina, reverse die wear and break at 10:00, tiny edge cracks, Neapolis (Naples, Italy) mint, weight 4.283g, maximum diameter 19.8mm, die axis 225o, c. 350 - 326 B.C.; obverse laureate head of Apollo right, laurel leaves in triple clusters; reverse NEOP-OLITEW-N (clockwise starting behind), forepart of Acheloios Sebethos as a man-faced bull right, head in profile; zero sales of this type recorded on Coin Archives in the last two decades; the only sale of the type known to Forum is Numismatica Ars Classica NAC auction 64 (17-18 May 2012), lot 1991; extremely rare; $1 million or best offer.

This coin is actually ex Forum 2010 but I had it attributed completely wrong.

I cannot actually read any of the legend.  Do I have it right or is this a heavy 1/4 unit?
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Offline Molinari

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2019, 05:48:31 pm »
It could be MSP 195, the no star half unit.  But I wouldn’t label it like that unless there is  some indication of the inscription or linear border, which are distinct characteristics of that variety.  It might also be a regular half unit from group 1b (so MSP 201-209), with the star not visible.  Or, a third option is a new variety, indicating the initial half unit series without star extended beyond the pattern recorded in MSP 195. I like the third option but I’ll have to think about it a bit.

A great coin.  And I’ve been waiting for years for a thread with this title!

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2019, 06:15:31 pm »
Here is a bigger pic.  I think there is enough muscle visible to be confident there was no star on the die.
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Offline Molinari

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2019, 07:25:50 pm »
Rome also issued a no star variety, but the sole example weights 2.65g.

Offline PMah

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 11:23:26 pm »
Wow! for the bull-face strike alone.
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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2019, 02:26:26 pm »
Looking again, I like option 3 best.  I wish we could make out what is happening behind the forepart.  Are there no elements of the legend visible in hand?

It is certainly numismatically important.  A million might be a bit steep, however.

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2019, 02:36:15 pm »
Nico is going to have a look when he gets home. I’m interested to see what he thinks.  There is a lot of variation in the weights on Neapolitan bronzes, which adds to the difficulty.  It might also be overstruck.

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 06:12:47 am »
He thinks it is too worn to say anything definitive, unfortunately. 

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 01:51:16 pm »
I can say one thing with certainty, the muscles on the bull's back are not worn. There was no star on the die used to strike this coin.
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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2019, 06:11:23 pm »
It could also be a heavy quarter unit. That’s a fourth option.  I don’t think I’ve seen any that heavy but it isn’t out of the question with these early examples. Or, option 5, maybe even a transitional piece between the half and quarter!

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2019, 07:36:00 am »
I'm now inclined to say option 4, a heavy quarter unit, is the most likely case.  Although we have half units as low as 4.6g, that is not until the next phase.  These earliest ones are 6+, and the early quarters go up to 3.86, so at 4.2, yours is much closer to the early quarter units with no star.  These are still quite rare.

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Re: Man-Faced Bull Uncertain Attribution Need MFB Expert Opinion
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2019, 11:42:20 am »
Thanks, I'll work on it again today.
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