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Author Topic: When there is 5 known coins  (Read 2146 times)

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Offline Tacitus

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When there is 5 known coins
« on: June 06, 2019, 10:03:00 pm »
I have one of 5 known coins of a specific type.

What is the rarity?  Is there an official rarity listing?  I know there used to be one, but with all of the coins being found.. has it changed?


Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: When there is 5 known coins
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 11:49:16 pm »
There have been several discussions on this topic over the years.  Here is one of them:  https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=116436.0

Others can be found by selecting the SEARCH DISCUSSION link above and searching on various terms such as "rarity ratings", etc., etc..


Craig

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: When there is 5 known coins
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 06:22:02 am »
Quote from: Tacitus on June 06, 2019, 10:03:00 pm
I have one of 5 known coins of a specific type.
What is the rarity?  Is there an official rarity listing?  I know there used to be one, but with all of the coins being found.. has it changed?

Rarity is usually defined based on the number of coins in a fixed, clearly defined sample. For example
- number of examples on Acsearch
- number of examples in a specified list of museum collections - which is the way rarity is defined in RIC or in Sydenham CRR.
- number of examples cited in a reference such as RPC

Each of these samples of course only represents a small proportion of possible number of coins. The purpose is only to give a consistent measurement standard. So you having one extra coin does not change a rarity rating that was based on a defined sample, such as a specified list of collections, or number cited in a specific book. The rarity remains exactly the same. You just happen to own one of the examples outside those sample databases (which is normal and expected). In fact it's quite usual that when RPC list for example 5 examples from specified collections, that there are 30 more out there in the wild.

When you say you have "one of five known", are you sure about that? Maybe there's five on ACsearch, or five listed in a standard reference work. But there might be many more examples out there - including yours. And just because you don't know about other examples, doesn't mean others don't know. There may be more known but just not by you.

So single additional coins do not change a rarity rating. Even several individual examples don't change a rarity rating that was based on a specified sample. It is expected - the rating was based on a sample after all. And over time more coins are always discovered but at the same time more coins get locked into permanent museum collections, or are perhaps lost again. So the gradual addition of coins from new discoveries is often offset by reductions in available coins for collectors for other reasons. On balance, even rarities defined 150 years ago by Cohen (who gave prices in Francs as an indication of rarity) tends to remain unchanged over the long term. In fact the relative pricing of coins in the Seaby Roman Silver Coins series was initially based on Cohen 1850s pricing and often those relative pricings have "stuck" and become recognised as an indicator of rarity and desirability (i.e. if you write down that a coin is rare, then more collectors will want the type and they will therefore need to pay more to get it, which makes the type more difficult to get, which makes it indeed seem rarer!)

What DOES change a rarity rating is when a massive hoard arrives. Roman Republican collectors experienced that a few years back when a large hoard of "Cassius Tripod" denarii, all in mint state, was placed on the market. That coin type previously had a rarity rating of Sydenham 9 ("exceedingly rare"). I would now rate it as 4 (merely "scarce"). But in that case there were hundreds of additional examples of a type previously known in only a handful of examples. The number of examples went up by a factor of 50 or so, overnight. That's quite different from the normal dribble of occasional extra examples such as you mention which do not change the rarity rating.

The link provided by Craig is indeed useful: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=116436.0

Offline Tacitus

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Re: When there is 5 known coins
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 04:23:05 pm »
Good Afternoon,

I am using Estoit's http://www.ric.mom.fr to base my comment on. 
I have a 3938.  The website lists 3 other specimens known (Vienna (54861, von Kolb) & 2 in Ph. Gysen collection).  Mine would make 4. 

Now granted there could be others in private collections.   Just not any others known to Estoit.

Offline Bill W4

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Re: When there is 5 known coins
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 09:26:08 pm »
Well I have a coin that is supposedly the 5th known example' or maybe it was the 4th? I don't put much stock in that.  Today I saw a licence plate from South Carolina.  pretty rare up north here but I'm sure there are quite a few further south.  Rarity is what you want it to be I believe.  I don't pay too much attention to rarity with ancients.  Maybe I should; I don't know.
I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member!

Offline JBF

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Re: When there is 5 known coins
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 11:32:39 pm »
I am curious Tacitus, what do you mean by 5 of this specific typeType, of course, is a technical term for, maybe emblem.

But, I think it is neat that you have something of some rarity, I didn't look at the website you pointed out, so I don't know if it is byzantine, roman, Greek...etc.  Maybe "all" there is, is a variety in the inscription or the secondary symbol.  That would not be as impressive as a totally distinct type.

Of course, one thing collectors do, is appreciate and catalog varieties that otherwise have been unaccounted.

Offline Tacitus

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Re: When there is 5 known coins
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 10:26:48 am »
Sorry type may have been the wrong word to use.

Mint: Serdica Issue 3
Datation: early – June 276
Denomination: Aureliani
Titulature: IMP CL TACITVS AVG Bust: D1
Legend: PROVIDEN DEOR
Reverse Mark: –/–//KA(•)Γ(•)
Reverse: Fides and Sol 1

Using the RIC scale, with 3 coins in known collections and mine a 4th, that would make it R3 or R4.  Not bad

Offline JBF

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Re: When there is 5 known coins
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2019, 06:07:40 pm »
not my area, but a handsome looking coin, always like to learn something new.

 

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